Andrew Huberman:
Knowing that you have the tools or the hardware already installed in you and you just need to know how to operate that, it can be very reassuring to people.
Elizabeth Koch:
Hi, I'm Elizabeth Koch. What's a perception box? It's this invisible mental box that each one of us lives inside, built from the material of our beliefs, life experiences, and the meaning we've made out of those experiences. You could think of it as a kind of reality filter that's constantly shaping how we see ourselves, other people, and the world around us. This podcast explores how. Although the walls of this box are always present, they can expand in moments of curiosity, awe, and wonder, or contract in response to fear, anxiety, and anger.
In each episode, we invite experts to share how to create lasting shifts in our perception. I'd like to introduce our esteemed host, Heather Berlin, Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai and Christof Koch, Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and former president of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.
Welcome to the Science of Perception Box. This week, our guest is Dr. Andrew Huberman. Much of what we experience is shaped by what lives well beneath our conscious minds and the physical sensations in our body, but this doesn't mean we have no agency. According to the Perception Box Framework, once we become aware of those physical sensations and stay present with the feelings, we can actively transform our experience.
Heather Berlin:
Christof, have you ever used a tool or a protocol to expand your perception box?
Christof Koch:
As you may know, I now live on a small island in the Pacific Northwest, just south of Vancouver Island. And just last week to get to here, I had to take one of these tiny planes and it was very windy. You're in the small plane, you go up and down. And the only thing I did... I did that, and I was totally fine. It worked.
Heather Berlin:
Luckily, we have someone who's really been thinking about this issue for a long time. So welcome to the podcast, Andrew Huberman.
Andrew Huberman:
Thank you.
Heather Berlin:
So you've trained as a neuroscientist. What got you personally interested in getting more involved in different wellness tools or exploring that in a deeper way?
Andrew Huberman:
I'm a formerly trained neuroscientist, undergraduate, graduate school, postdoc, and running a lab and so forth. But my interest in biology started long before that when I was a kid. And my interest in what we now call health and wellness, biohacking, et cetera, started when I was in my mid-teens. I was always a seeker of information and reader. So early on I started seeking out information about meditation, and that took me down the path of wanting to understand other ways that I could regulate what I now know as my nervous system. But back then I was also very interested in sports. I got involved in skateboarding, martial arts. I got badly injured skateboarding, and then I was interested in how I could heal more quickly. It was prior to me starting the podcast we started in 2021, but that's when things really started to converge, where we started hearing about breath work, meditation, discussions about psychedelics were really starting to surface for the first time.
Every time I would try something, regardless of what it was called, and regardless of the community that was doing it, I would glean some piece of information that I found helpful. I never really bought into anything wholesale. I didn't join the meditation community. I wasn't a psychedelics devotee or anything like that. And then because I'm a scientist, I would try and look at those things through the lens of physiology first. But rather than think about meditation as some sort of mystical thing that gives you insight into consciousness, I thought, "This is kind of a perceptual exercise."
By that time, I was a vision scientist studying how we encode photons in the world and make sense of them into images and so forth. And I thought, "Oh, when you close your eyes, you remove a lot of sensory input. You devote your focus, your attention to your internal state. Let me just think about this as a perceptual exercise. Why would that change the way I feel when I open my eyes?" And start to think about it through the lens of neuroscience and physiology. And eventually my laboratory did, in collaboration, a clinical trial looking at how different patterns of breathing impact immediate and long-term, what we call autonomic states, how relaxed or stressed you are.
Christof Koch:
This was David Spiegel.
Andrew Huberman:
This was with my colleague David Spiegel, who, he's one of the most unusual and I think interesting psychiatrists in the world because he's a card carrying psychiatrist and believes in all the general tools of psychiatry, but he's also really championed the use of hypnosis, clinical hypnosis as a tool for accelerating plasticity. The way I categorize the different tools for mind-body connection are as follows. First of all, I think of respiration or breath work of any kind that's done deliberately, deliberately hyperventilating, deliberately doing long exhale breathing, box breathing, whichever you choose as a deliberate way of trying to shift one's autonomic state, how much level of alertness versus calmness one has.
Hypnosis is designed to solve a particular problem, which is different than meditation, which I view as a perceptual exercise. You're deliberately placing your perception usually internally, sometimes open monitoring meditation, but usually internally. And the goal there is manyfold. It can be to lower stress. It can be to get a better insight into thoughts and what they are and what they aren't. Over a long period of time, it can alter one's own perception of consciousness and thoughts, but it's a perceptual exercise. And then of course, I think about psychedelics, the classic psychedelics as tools for neuroplasticity.
Heather Berlin:
I think the common theme though is taking things that were typically outside the realm of science, like whether spiritual or consciousness, that's something we're both interested in, but Christof was really at the forefront of that field of saying we can study this through the lens of science. And taking that a step further, you're saying all these other spiritual practices that people have known for hundreds of years, meditation and yoga and breath work, what's the underlying physiology of that? And then once we understand that, can we tap into it and get there quicker and use these tools to help enhance our wellbeing?
Andrew Huberman:
That's exactly right. And for me, now as a public science health educator, it was very clear to me that the things that I found most useful, things like yoga nidra, which I found to be an extremely powerful tool that we could talk about. And I-
Christof Koch:
Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Andrew Huberman:
Sure. Yeah. I took the liberty of doing something which is a little bit heretical and I felt like was indeed unfair to the people who developed yoga nidra, which means yoga sleep, doesn't actually involve any specific movement, and I started calling it non-sleep deep rest. I didn't do that to try and rob the traditional view of it and creation of anything, but I knew about a year into doing the podcast and being a public educator that people hear yoga nidra and they think, "Downward dog, I don't want to do yoga." Eastern, and Americans and Western Europeans just run from it. So how something arrives, the packaging and the naming is extremely important. Yoga nidra, I learned about first in 2017. I went out, I was interested in stress and trauma for studies I was doing in my lab and frankly for my own life and experience. And I went-
Heather Berlin:
You've had stress?
Andrew Huberman:
I've had a little bit of stress. Yeah. Fortunately, I never had to compete with Christof because I selected different topics to work on, but science is a brutal game. I was fortunate that I was able to keep my lab funded consistently. I mean, it's sadly never enough to do all the experiments you would like to do, but that's also probably a good thing. Research science is one of those places where you have to work almost as hard to get the resources to do the work as you do to do the actual work. In any event, the-
Christof Koch:
Yoga. [inaudible 00:08:23].
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah. So yoga nidra was introduced to me by a very talented addiction trauma therapist. He's licensed. His name is Ryan Soave, and he's out in Florida. And I observed him working with heroin addicts and other drug addicts. I fortunately have never had substance abuse issues, but I think we all have dealt with challenging compulsions and stress, et cetera. And he said one of the reasons they're so successful in his clinic is they have them do an hour of yoga nidra every morning. So I started joining them for this. And yoga nidra is an ancient practice where you lie down. Typically, it lasts anywhere from 10, 20 or 30 minutes, but up to an hour. And you do long exhale breathing. Humans deliberately inhale. We actively inhale and we passively exhale. Reptiles do the opposite.
So when you consciously exhale, it activates this respiratory sinus arrhythmia, which sounds like a bad thing, arrhythmia, but it slows your heart rate down through the vagal system. So they do that, and then typically it involves a body scan. And the beautiful thing about yoga nidra is that people are instructed to try and stay awake while being deeply relaxed. It's a wonderful thing because people feel like there's less of a struggle to get to a certain place.
Christof Koch:
So Andrew, how would that help somebody who's addicted to some substance get rid of their or reduce their craving?
Andrew Huberman:
Great question. So first of all, doing yoga nidra has the benefit that it makes you a better sleeper because it is self-directed relaxation. Sleeping better turns out to be the most important thing for our mental health, physical health, and performance, if you will, as well as for overcoming any challenge. And for all addicts, they're in the stress of trying to not use the substance, remove their context-dependent memories, all the kinds of things that benefit from being relaxed. We know that stress drives relapse. The other thing that yoga nidra does is that many people, most of us probably, are not sleeping as much or as well as we would like. When people do yoga nidra, pockets of the brain are going into a deep sleep-like state.
Christof Koch:
You mean local sleep?
Andrew Huberman:
Local sleep. And so it's very restorative. Yoga nidra restores levels of dopamine to very high levels that are only present typically after waking up from a good night's sleep. So this might... here it's conjecture, but that this restoration of dopamine levels might be one of the reasons why, let's say an addict or someone else is dealing with trauma or stress, or just any person wakes up, you've slept six choppy hours, not the eight you would love. Now you're into the day. If you do 10 or 20 minutes or 30 minutes of non-sleep deep rest, yoga nidra, if this result turns out to be true in every case, dopamine gets topped off and now you're in a better position for deliberate action, but also withholding action.
Heather Berlin:
So I have a question. Well, I want to get into, because this is one technique. There's a lot of other things that we can get into, health-related things that can help us in our daily lives. So you had mentioned that we all have struggled with compulsion. I've studied impulsive and compulsive behaviors and addictions, and it's not just to substances. There are behavioral addictions as well.
Andrew Huberman:
Sure.
Heather Berlin:
Shopping, gambling, and the internet addiction. Have you ever struggled with any challenging compulsions in your life that some of these practices might've helped you with?
Andrew Huberman:
Oh, absolutely. Where would you like to begin?
Heather Berlin:
We can make a list.
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah. I think I'm like a good number of people out there in the sense that I both have had aspects of my life that are incredibly regimented and organized, and then aspects of my life where I felt I wasn't completely dysregulated, but that I wasn't able to manage my behavior as well as I would've liked. I will say over the last five years, it's been both embarrassing at some level, but also kind of surprising to me just how powerful of a draw the phone really is. I mean, I now have what I call a supermax prison lockbox that I put my phone in where you can't code out. And I'm somebody who can get up and get through a workout when I don't feel like I want to. I can sit down and write a grant when I don't necessarily want to. I can force my behavior and I can withhold behavior, but I think that either the algorithms are so good or I am so bad, one or the other, that it takes an immense amount of effort at times to really resist the temptation to get that input.
Christof Koch:
Well, I mean, I would say the algorithms are made to get us hooked. That's what social media and the phone does.
Heather Berlin:
But so have any of the techniques that you've discovered in terms of managing your own physiology helped with your compulsion in any way?
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah, tremendously. And I would say overwork and workaholism has been, on the one hand, adaptive, but on the other hand, a somewhat destructive force in my life over the years. And I think that's true for many people. Again, I've been very fortunate that I haven't had substance abuse issues. Ultimately, what I discovered early on and say through the meditation practice and then much later yoga nidra and in between through what would be called running, martial arts, lifting weights and things like that, is that we need two kinds of practices. And the two kinds of practices are real-time tools that you can use in the moment. You study impulsivity, so I'd be curious what your thoughts are, but things that we can use in the moment to regulate our autonomic arousal level and things that we do and that have a long-lasting positive impact.
Christof Koch:
That set our mind in the proper-
Andrew Huberman:
That set our mind in a proper place or set some sort of stage for us to intervene with ourselves. Because this whole notion of stimulus response and the more you can generate a gap, that's all wonderful when you're coming back from Esalen. And I love Esalen, by the way. When you're coming back from Esalen after a long weekend or vacation or a massage or you're like, you're great. You're blissed and you're in control for a couple of weeks. And then everyone relapses back into this reflexive, reactive state.
So the things that have really helped me were the discovery of the physiological side. And it was named that by physiologists in the 1930s. This is this pattern of a double inhale, long exhale that Christof was referring to earlier. It was discovered in the 1930s as a pattern of spontaneous breathing that people and animals, mammals do during sleep. So it turns out that we inhale to get oxygen and we exhale largely to discard carbon dioxide. If levels of carbon dioxide get too high, we feel that as more or less a stress response. In sleep-
Christof Koch:
With panic in extreme cases.
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah, panic. Yeah, you can induce panic if you have people breathe elevated levels of carbon dioxide. So what they discovered was in sleep, spontaneously, people would do this. Okay? A dog does that before it goes down to sleep. When people are crying, they're often in a low level of asphyxiation and then they'll do this and then they recover their breathing.
Christof Koch:
Oh, that's cool.
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah. Yeah. So it turns out that the double inhale, long exhale, there's a circuit for it. It's actually, not to get too technical, but our colleague, Jack Feldman, who discovered the pre-Bötzinger complex, is involved in rhythmic breathing. Anytime it's inhale, exhale, inhale, exhale. A neighboring cluster of neurons, the parafacial nucleus, is involved in generating patterns of breathing, all patterns of breathing, where you double up on inhales or you double up on exhales. I'm using them right now as I speak. You use it when you eat, you use it when you sing, you use it when you speak publicly.
And when you're stressed, eventually the physiological sigh kicks in, but most people don't really allow it to happen. They override it with more and more stress. So it turns out that, and we tested in this study, David Spiegel and I ran this study about a hundred subjects where people deliberately did physiological sighing. And indeed, it's very useful for lowering your level of autonomic arousal immediately, even just one physiological sigh. So big deep inhale through the nose. A second big inhale, which turns out to be a small inhale because your lungs are almost full to maximally inflate the lungs, which allows you to then...
Christof Koch:
You don't hold.
Andrew Huberman:
You don't hold.
Christof Koch:
You don't do double inhale, hold, exhale.
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah. So the reason to... You're right. You do...
Heather Berlin:
It's like a top-up.
Andrew Huberman:
It's a top-off. And the reason is the lungs, as many people may know, it's not just two big bags of air. You have hundreds of millions of little sacks that, because they're a little damp on the inside, they get flat and stuck to one another. So it's like blowing up a balloon at a kid's party. The two inhales help when you're inhaling a balloon, but in this case, you're doing the two inhales through your nose. The long exhale is best done through the mouth, and that immediately lowers heart rate.
And so real-time tools like that I found to be tremendously useful because going up to give a talk, I'm pretty comfortable with public speaking, but if I'm not well slept, if I have a little bit too much coffee, I would be giving a talk at a conference. I notice I'm kind of quaking. What's going on? Well, my autonomic nervous system is a little bit. The hinge on the seesaw is a little loose. One or two of those before you go on, you're set.
Heather Berlin:
So these are sort of biohacks in a way to calm, or at least it-
Christof Koch:
I was talking recently, just a story directly related to that and to your point, the power of marketing. I was talking recently to my brother-in-law with Special Forces in Afghanistan, and he told me about their anti-stress just before they go in or do something real dangerous. And I said, "Oh, yoga nidra." He said, "No, no, tactical breathing."
Andrew Huberman:
Mm-hmm. Right. Exactly.
Heather Berlin:
Same thing, different name.
Andrew Huberman:
Well, this is interesting because at one point my lab, not publicly, but it's okay to talk about now, I had a few collaborations with the special operations community, some in Monterey and some on the East Coast and in Canada. And you can't really give those guys yoga nidra. You can, but you're going to get fewer people recruited. But if you talk to them about physiological sigh or you talk to them about non-sleep deep rest, they're very interested in how they can reset quickly. So there's that.
Heather Berlin:
I want to just get to, because there's a lot of ways that we can... By understanding our innate biology or physiology, we can, I'm going to say hack in, but use some of these things that have naturally evolved to calm us down when we need them in this high stress world. But I want to talk about some other things as well. There's breathing, there's also the mind-gut relationship. How does what we ingest in our body impact us in a way? And also alcohol. There's a lot going on in the realm of alcohol. And what is its impact on our overall health as well as it relates to this mind-gut connection?
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah, great question. And I will say that the physiological sigh or any other breathing technique that emphasizes exhales and therefore calms us down is working through the vagus nerve, which is this neural super highway with connections from the brain outward and from the organs inward to the brain. And that is the basis. A portion of it is the basis for the heart rate slowering that occurs with long exhale breathing in the physiological side. It also turns out that if you want to speed your heart rate up, it's also through that pathway. When you inhale very vigorously, you start to speed your heart rate up. People have heard of heart rate variability. Everyone wants a better HRV. They're waking up in the morning, "What's my HRV? How's my HRV?" HRV, the basis of it is the descending input from the vagus to slow the heart rate down through the sinoatrial node and all this so forth.
So to just step back from your question a tiny bit, my interest in using physiology as the entry point is deliberate, yes, from the standpoint of naming and getting things out more broadly. It's also the one that allows me to orient myself in the vast landscape of nomenclature and histories and people claiming ownership of things, which I don't. You have to stand someplace to make sense of all this, to see where the connections really exist. So I just wanted to mention that because I think it is important for people who prefer a non-physiological view of things. Many times, people who are practiced in yoga and its traditions will say, "Wait, what you're talking about is pranayama." I'll say, "Great." But if I tell someone else pranayama and explain what it is and they're on board, great. But people... Here's my strong belief. Whether and how people use a tool strongly depends on how they learned about that tool.
Christof Koch:
It's a narrative. It's a narrative [inaudible 00:21:19], and pranayma for some sounds woo-woo and Eastern and far out and not congenial to their own tradition. But if you call it tactical breathing, then yes, I'm all in.
Heather Berlin:
Well, that's all about our perception box, right?
Andrew Huberman:
Yes.
Heather Berlin:
How you perceive something and the way you perceive it and frame it is how you're going to experience the same physiologic phenomenon.
Andrew Huberman:
One thing that's nice is to be able to talk about physiology that exists in all of us. The mechanism, the vagus nerve, the phrenic nerve that controls diaphragmatic breathing. Knowing that you have the tools or the hardware already installed in you, and you just need to know how to operate that, it can be very reassuring to people because then it becomes less about what's out there, what you can afford, what you can access, what something's called. And just we all are born with a phrenic nerve and a vagus nerve, a parafacial nucleus, a pre-Bötzinger complex, and we can all do these things. And the nice thing is they work the first time and every time.
The challenge with things like meditation, which of course I subscribe to, is that it's hard for people to know if they did it right. And if people don't feel a big shift with something the first time, they're very unlikely to go back to it.
Christof Koch:
They need the positive feedback mechanism. Yeah, relatively quickly.
Andrew Huberman:
They really need it. They really do. They need to feel differently, quickly. And when they're the person generating that and they can do it alone and not just in the context of a group or a weekend away, I think that's really powerful. And so there's that.
Heather Berlin:
But the other aspects of outside of the breathing, there's other behaviors that we can do that can help with our wellbeing. But I do want to talk about other behaviors like what we eat, what we ingest, what we drink, how we interact with other people. What are other general things we can do in our life as a long-term goal that can help our underlying physiology?
Christof Koch:
So what's your point of view for instance, physiology and alcohol? Short-term, I mean long-term particular. Thinking.
Andrew Huberman:
Okay. I've spent a lot of time with this literature because every so often you'll start to see what we heard for a while, which was that some alcohol, especially red wine, is better for us than not.
Christof Koch:
One glass or two glass.
Heather Berlin:
But I don't want your personal take. I want the scientific consensus take.
Andrew Huberman:
So my colleague at Stanford, Dr. Keith Humphreys, who's in our psychiatry department, and I spoke about this recently, his laboratory, and he's a clinician as well, have looked at the entire literature, every which way, including the studies that concluded that some alcohol is better than none. And here's the clear takeaway. So this is not just my stance, it's also what's been printed by Stanford Media and by Keith and colleagues. And he's a very objective guy. Zero is better than any if your sole interest is your biological health.
Christof Koch:
Wait, so it's really linear, no threshold model.
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah. Most adult non-alcoholics can probably have two drinks per week without significantly increasing their cancer risk or other risk. There is a significant increase in breast-
Christof Koch:
Do we have to hear that?
Andrew Huberman:
Breast cancer.
Christof Koch:
Do we have to listen to that?
Heather Berlin:
I want to hear this.
Andrew Huberman:
People don't like to... Well, I was figuring-
Heather Berlin:
Go on. Let start.
Andrew Huberman:
Well, so see-
Heather Berlin:
Zero is the best. Zero is the best.
Andrew Huberman:
Zero is best. Any cardiac benefit that's afforded by a couple glasses of wine per week is greatly offset by the cancer risk. So we need to talk about relative risk.
Heather Berlin:
You can have it... They call it this resveratrol. What is it?
Andrew Huberman:
Resveratrol?
Heather Berlin:
Yes, exactly. That was in the skin of the red, the grapes. You can just eat... There are other ways to get that.
Christof Koch:
Well, you have to do it at very high doses-
Heather Berlin:
It's like a pill.
Andrew Huberman:
You would have to-
Christof Koch:
... resveratrol.
Andrew Huberman:
You would take grapeseed extract. You'd have to ingest tons and tons of them.
Heather Berlin:
What you're saying is the negatives outweigh the benefits or that they-
Andrew Huberman:
I mean, it's classified as a-
Heather Berlin:
... cancel each other out.
Andrew Huberman:
... class one carcinogen over in a lot of areas of the world.
Christof Koch:
What about the social benefits? If we sit together here, six hours from now, we have a glass of wine, we're social, we are happier.
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah. And marking a transition from workday to non-workday.
Heather Berlin:
But you can get that in other ways. You don't need alcohol to relax. That's my philosophy.
Andrew Huberman:
You don't need it. I mean, alcohol's a very interesting one because, well, okay, there's also, you mentioned the gut microbiome. I believe that many of the detrimental effects of alcohol are not direct reflection of it as a "poison", which it is. For instance, if you drink within six hours of sleep, you're going to have less REM sleep and deep sleep, period.
Now, people always say, "Well, cannabis." Cannabis will nuke your REM sleep. Anyone who has been a regular cannabis user, even semi-regular cannabis user who then stops taking cannabis, their dreams are wild. They will tell you that because-
Heather Berlin:
It's like a rebound effect.
Andrew Huberman:
... they're in REM rebound for years of-
Heather Berlin:
Suppression.
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah, for years of suppression. I also think an indirect negative effect of alcohol is on the gut microbiome. Now, all of that said, I do think that there can be a social and stress lowering benefit of alcohol. Two drinks per week perhaps being the upper threshold, maybe a few more for certain people, depending on what else you're doing. If you're taking great care of your cardiovascular health, if you are doing some things to support your gut health, and I'll just say the best way that we're aware of from good studies to support your gut microbiome is to ingest low sugar fermented foods.
Sauerkraut, natto-
Christof Koch:
Kimchi.
Andrew Huberman:
... Kimchi, kombucha, low sugar versions, Greek yogurt, I'm partial to Bulgarian yogurt. Some of them experienced big increases in inflammatory markers. Big. And other people got reduction. So we hear that fiber, which I believe is good for us, is very good for our gut microbiome. Not everybody, that it reduces our so-called inflammatome or inflammatory markers. Turns out in some people it doesn't. And it turns out that some people find that broccoli makes them feel not well, that they can't digest it well. So you have to be-
Christof Koch:
So it's a question [inaudible 00:27:20].
Andrew Huberman:
You have to experiment and figure out what-
Heather Berlin:
It's individual differences.
Andrew Huberman:
Individual differences.
Heather Berlin:
With our physiology.
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah. So there is a phenomenon where people drink, they feel relaxed, they sleep well enough. The next day you can see a spike in cortisol and anxiety.
Heather Berlin:
See, that's really interesting, I think, that it's after alcohol has come out of your... I mean, with cocaine or others, you get this high, but then you pay for it the next day with a low. And the same kind of thing with alcohol is that you get the sort of relief of the tension and the relaxation, but then you actually get an increase in stress response the next day.
Another behavior I think we can all get behind is sex. How much does that contribute to our overall health and wellbeing? What is the relationship between frequency of sex, quality of sex? It's another dopamine enhancing activity.
Christof Koch:
Oxytocin.
Heather Berlin:
Oxytocin, human touch. I mean, it checks a lot of boxes. Have you thought about the relationship between sex and overall wellbeing and physical health, mental health? How much should we be having? Should we be doing it all the time?
Andrew Huberman:
I think the data on this... I have thought a lot about this as I imagine most people have. Everyone talks about sex as we all know what it is, and we have some sense of what it may or may not look like for us. But no one's really talking about whether or not, despite frequency per week, I mean, are we talking about 20 minutes? Are we talking about five minutes? Are we talking about-
Heather Berlin:
I mean, should it be once a day, twice, once a week? What's the recommendation? What is the scientific-
Andrew Huberman:
There's very little science on this.
Heather Berlin:
I'm just saying you can get highs in lots of different ways. There should be research on this.
Andrew Huberman:
I get hundreds, if not thousands, of questions about pornography. The easy accessibility of pornography now and the fear of sort of post-sexual interaction shaming on social media has led young men to, so I'm thinking teens and 20s and 30s to turn to pornography. Then we talk about sex versus masturbation. And then in modern times, there's this sort of unspoken thing like, "Oh, masturbation is kind of not great for guys, but might be healthier for women because they are having an opportunity to explore their bodies, they have a more complex response perhaps." The truth is there just haven't been very candid discussions about it because very few people are willing to reveal what they're doing except at the extremes.
Heather Berlin:
But we have breath work and how we eat and how we sleep and our physical activity and human connections and social contact. And I think sex can be part of the conversation as well.
Andrew Huberman:
I will say this, not to bring it back to nuts and bolts physiology, but it is very clear that-
Heather Berlin:
No, you should bring it back to nuts and bolts and physiology.
Andrew Huberman:
... you want your morning cortisol high. It's why you wake up in the morning. Viewing bright light in the morning, ideally from sunlight, will spike your cortisol even further. This is extremely important to do for everyone. Exercise will do it. Caffeine will do it. Movement to the body. If you're waking up, you're indoors, you're scrolling your phone, that's not bright enough to stimulate this response. Kind of slowly move into the day, which I often like to do. That cortisol peak shifts. You get what's called a flattening of the cortisol curve. This is why many people in the evening have a hard time falling asleep or at night where they fall asleep and then at 3:00 AM they're waking up. It's a shift in the cortisol curve.
Christof Koch:
So no physical... I mean-
Heather Berlin:
The one exception is sex.
Andrew Huberman:
The one exception is sex.
Heather Berlin:
Yes. Knew it.
Andrew Huberman:
And here's the reason. There's actually good physiology on this. The "postcoital bliss" relaxation response, yes, it involves oxytocin, vasopressin. There's a cocktail of hormones and neurotransmitters, but it also leads to a dramatic reduction in heart rate that people generally sleep quite well after-
Heather Berlin:
Certainly men do.
Andrew Huberman:
... after orgasm.
Heather Berlin:
Yeah. Sorry.
Christof Koch:
That's not-
Heather Berlin:
I'm sorry. I don't mean to gender stereotype or anything.
Andrew Huberman:
So when you go to sleep at night, your cortisol is at its all time low, and then it stays low through deep sleep. Somewhere around halfway through your sleep night, you transition from predominantly deep slow wave sleep to REM, as you know, and your cortisol starts to rise. Once your cortisol hits a certain threshold, you wake up.
Christof Koch:
So what happens as we age? Because typically older people get up earlier and earlier. Everything shifts towards earlier times.
Andrew Huberman:
Well, I like the woo explanation of this actually.
Christof Koch:
What is the woo explanation?
Heather Berlin:
The woo-woo. It's the woo-woo.
Andrew Huberman:
The woo explanation. You could actually look at it, the Allen Brain, and I wish you guys would do that. So there's this theory that the pineal becomes calcified as we get older.
Christof Koch:
Which seems to be true.
Heather Berlin:
Is that true? Really?
Andrew Huberman:
And that the melatonin, the only source of... Well, not true. The only source of melatonin that makes us sleepy in the body comes from the pineal. It turns out every cell has melatonin. It acts as an antioxidant in our cells, but that the pineal is calcified. And so while I'm not a big fan of melatonin supplementation for most people, as people hit their 70s and 80s, a half a milligram of melatonin can be very helpful to people.
Christof Koch:
A tiny dose.
Andrew Huberman:
Tiny dose. Most people who take three milligrams of melatonin or something like that, they're setting themselves up for trouble. I mean, it's not going to destroy you, but half or even less of a milligram.
Heather Berlin:
The melatonin is not something good to take to sleep as an average.
Andrew Huberman:
Not regularly.
Heather Berlin:
Yeah.
Andrew Huberman:
Occasionally it should be fine, but most people need very, very little. And there gets into the whole thing of what's really in the bottle. But you go with a reputable brand and take half a milligram even if you have to break a tablet.
Heather Berlin:
When you're older.
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah. Or if you really need to get to sleep.
Christof Koch:
I mean, to help with a sleep lag, typically I take one or two.
Heather Berlin:
Jet lag.
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah. Better that than an Ambien.
Heather Berlin:
But you wouldn't take it every night to try to sleep.
Andrew Huberman:
I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't do that.
Heather Berlin:
So you have a bunch of protocols that's your new book and-
Christof Koch:
In fact, your book. Maybe you can briefly tell us about your book.
Andrew Huberman:
Oh, yeah. So the book is called Protocols: A User Manual for the Human Brain and Body. And it's chapter on sleep, chapter on stress, chapter on microbiome, motivation, neuroplasticity. And it's very straightforward. It was designed to be a lookup table type book. There's a little bit of story in there.
Christof Koch:
So it's really protocols, a set of protocols.
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah. It's really designed so that if somebody's like, "I want to get control of my stress, what can I do is real time control." I've been spending a lot of time surveying the landscape of nutrition and what the key takeaways I believe are based on the science. And there's one on creativity, a section on creativity, and one on relationship to self. I taught and I still teach developmental neurobiology and the notion that you take two cells, sperm and egg, and it self-organizes into a nervous system that, sure, needs some curating once the child is born. But it is so spectacular that that takes us, me anyway, into the realm of almost the spiritual.
Heather Berlin:
But a very similar experience as a scientist studying the human brain and how complex it is and that it self-organizes in such a way that it allows us to have conscious perception. I mean, then you get into the realm of like, could this have just been by accident or evolution? It gives me a sense of wonder at least that there might be something more. But for your protocols and how do the stories that we tell ourselves about ourselves, how does that relate to this concept of the Perception Box and not just the body, but the mind? So we're talking a lot about the body, but how does this relate to our mental world?
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah. Well, for that, I think about this a lot. And these days I think, "Thank goodness for the psychologists," because even though their instruments of experimentation are different and a lot of things are unfortunately still cloaked in naming, that's the hard part, I feel like they've chipped away at some of the key aspects of the mind that most people care about, at least at first pass.
For instance, in writing the book, I had a whole section on motivation. And of course my colleague Carol Dweck is growth mindset, Alia Crum, stress is performance enhancing mindset. You start merging these things and you see, "Oh, people can really learn and be better." But something like motivation, everyone would like to feel more of a sense of urgency around certain things. So when it comes to discussions around the mind, I sort of hand it over to the psychologist. When it gets to issues of, and you mentioned kind of spirituality and things beyond our control, I have to say the biggest shift for me in the last five years has been the... I now thoroughly believe in God 100% for me. And the reason is very simple, which is that I've seen so many people, including myself, struggle to engage what we in nerd speak call top-down regulation to try and do something or not do something and really, really struggle with that.
But then you give over that control. You acknowledge, you surrender. "I can't do it. I just can't do it on my own. I need people, I need support, but I can't do it." You surrender it. This is part of 12 step. You give over to a higher power. And all of a sudden people are able to do it. So this defies logic.
Heather Berlin:
This is what I would say, and this is not to promote my book, but my book is called The Fine Art of Losing Control. It's going to come out next year.
Andrew Huberman:
Awesome.
Heather Berlin:
But the main premise of it is that we gain more control over our impulses and our compulsivity counterintuitively by letting go, by decreasing activation in the prefrontal cortex. And that's what I allude to things like AA and things where it says, "Let go, give up to..." whatever you want to call it, whether it's a higher power, a God, spiritual, you let go of your ego. The trying to control is the thing that actually makes you have less control. And it's the letting go. And I think from a neuroscience perspective, that it's these automatic unconscious processes that we're letting them do their job. And that's where we can heal.
Christof Koch:
You know the Serenity Prayer?
Andrew Huberman:
Yes.
Christof Koch:
I think that's very appropriate here. "Oh God, give me the..." What is it? "The courage to recognize what I need to change, the serenity to accept what I cannot change and the wisdom to tell the difference."
Andrew Huberman:
I mean, there's so much wisdom in AA and the other 12-step communities. Actually, Keith Humphreys, as an addiction researcher and clinician, was quite skeptical of the 12-step thing. You hear it's a cult, et cetera. So they ran a study. They did a meta-analysis of a bunch of different 12-step data sets and ran their own studies and found that it's perhaps the most effective treatment for at least alcoholism.
Heather Berlin:
But also, by the way, it might be one of the reasons why the psychedelics work in that it also shoots you into a place of letting go of the ego and connecting with something greater than oneself. And there might be just something in that practice, whether it's through a spiritual or religious practice, AA or psychedelics, about the letting go of your ego.
Andrew Huberman:
The more interesting question to me is, do you need the psychedelic experience to get the beneficial plasticity?
Heather Berlin:
Correct.
Andrew Huberman:
I do think that there are insights that come from that exploration, but I know people are trying to modify these molecules to create-
Christof Koch:
Many are trying to biohack. However, we do know, certainly for depression, that the therapeutic efficiency is directly proportional to the extent that you have a mystical experience, assayed at least by the MEQ-30. So to the extent that people dissolve their self and feel they become one with the universe and that's a positive experience, to that extent, they're likely to have significant traumatic drops in their MADRS scaled, all the depression scales.
Heather Berlin:
But however, we had actually, I think he's a colleague of yours, Boris, who's at Stanford.
Christof Koch:
Boris Heifets, yeah.
Heather Berlin:
Yeah, Boris Heifets, who's an anesthesiologist who gave people ketamine under anesthesia. So they got the physiological effect of the drug without the psychological effect and... People with depression. And it was basically the people that had the most significant positive outcome were, it was a placebo effect that they believed... because it was a placebo controlled trial and they believed they had the ketamine and that really had an impact.
Christof Koch:
Partly it's a narrative. The question, is it only the placebo effect or not? And it's very difficult of course to mask.
Heather Berlin:
Yeah, go on. Sorry.
Andrew Huberman:
Well, I was going to say that with ketamine, because it's a dissociative anesthetic or with MDMA because it's an pathogen. And I think I would love more... I'm not criticizing anyone because I myself am using the word psychedelics, but I think in order for it to move forward clinically and with the FDA and to be handled properly, it needs more subtle languaging around it because ketamine and MDMA are far and away-
Heather Berlin:
It's a mechanism.
Andrew Huberman:
... different than Ibogaine and psilocybin and LSD.
Heather Berlin:
On that note, on every episode, we ask one question to open up our own Perception Box. And this week I get to choose the question. So neither of you know what the question is. So have you ever found yourself acting in a way acting like the very type of person that you can't stand? And what was the circumstance?
Christof Koch:
Sadly, I have. I've been in relationship with... a very intense relationship that was very volatile and I acted very often like a complete asshole.
Heather Berlin:
Oh, that's a good one. I know exactly what he's referring to.
Christof Koch:
I did want to and I found myself and I have lasting regrets about that.
Heather Berlin:
Okay. That's good to know. So you can live and learn from your experiences.
Christof Koch:
You can live and learn from your experiences.
Andrew Huberman:
Great answer. Thanks for saying that so that I didn't have to. Did I ever find myself in a place acting in a way that I was surprised and later regretted?
Heather Berlin:
Or acting like a type of person that you don't like.
Andrew Huberman:
It's taken me a long time to sort of come to terms with it. There were times when my ambition led me to neglect people that I really care about to the point where I kept looking at myself and going like, "What is going on here?"
Heather Berlin:
I want to thank you for being open and sharing that. And I think it's important for everyone to learn from their mistakes and try to continually become a better person. So now we're going to lighten it up a little bit. We're going to play a little game. It's called the Huberman Toolkit, Keep or Cut. Okay? All right. This is going to be like a rapid fire.
Christof Koch:
[inaudible 00:41:38].
Heather Berlin:
We're going to ask you about different wellness tools. Then we're going to ask you whether we should cut it or keep the tool. So keep or cut alcohol.
Andrew Huberman:
Cut it. Your life will be so much better. And one editorial here. Alcohol is the one substance that people give you a hard time for not using it, and that's all about them.
Heather Berlin:
Intermittent fasting.
Andrew Huberman:
If it works for you, I don't tend to be hungry in the morning, so I'm happy to eat my first bite of food at 11 and my last bite of food somewhere around 7:30, 8:00 PM. But if you wake up hungry, that's actually kind of a good sign. And some people just don't feel well when they're trying to restrict their food window and they're just better off distributing their food.
Heather Berlin:
Yeah, sometimes I can't sleep if I'm hungry. So then yeah, it's a balance for me.
Christof Koch:
But it does work for mice in terms of their immune system. There was this nice study out of the Salk Institute that in terms of their treatment of their immune system and cytokines, et cetera, intermittent fast.
Andrew Huberman:
Right. And it's nice also to be able to go some period of time without having to eat. If you're very regular with your food times distributed through all your waking hours, every two to three hours and suddenly you can't eat, it can be very dysregulating at the level of blood sugar and anxiety and stuff.
Heather Berlin:
Supplements for sleep. Keep or cut?
Andrew Huberman:
Keep the right ones. Magnesium 3 and 8 or bisglycinate, a little bit of thionine, apigenin, which is chamomile extract. If you have trouble sleeping, always start with behavioral tools. But I'm always behavioral tools first, get your nutrition timing right, and only then add supplements. But sure, they can help.
Heather Berlin:
Okay. Sex, keep or cut.
Andrew Huberman:
Definitely keep.
Heather Berlin:
That's one I'm on board.
Andrew Huberman:
Healthy sex, healthy partnership. Awesome. Sex in the context of a bad relationship? No.
Heather Berlin:
Cut.
Andrew Huberman:
No, cut. Cut the whole relationship.
Heather Berlin:
Red light therapy. Keep or cut?
Andrew Huberman:
Keep. But get your red light, which is basically long wavelength light, ideally from sunlight. We're all afraid of the sun because of excess UV exposure. But keep in mind in the middle of the day when the sun is overhead is when you get a lot of UV exposure, when it's low in the sky. You're gleaning a lot of the medium and long wavelength light, including red light when the sun is low in the sky without the UV.
Heather Berlin:
Okay, two more. Ice baths, keep or cut.
Andrew Huberman:
If you want to become more resilient, keep. If you don't care to become more resilient because you already are dealing with enough stress in life, cut.
Heather Berlin:
Breath work apps. Keep or cut.
Andrew Huberman:
I personally like to just do breath work in my head, but if an app helps you, great.
Heather Berlin:
And finally, sauna. Keep or cut.
Andrew Huberman:
Great if you have access to a dry sauna. And if you are a male looking to conceive children in the next 90 days, bring an ice pack in and put it outside your shorts because you will dramatically deplete the number of motile sperm. What are you going to do? Got to live your life.
Heather Berlin:
On that note, got to live your life. I want to thank you, Andrew Huberman, for joining us today.
Andrew Huberman:
Oh, thank you.
Heather Berlin:
And if you'd like to learn more about your own Perception Box, spend some time this week answering the same Perception Box questions that we asked our guests and check out other questions on our website at unlikelycollaborators.com. You can also subscribe to our YouTube channel and watch the show or listen wherever you get your podcasts. This has been Science of Perception Box created by unlikely collaborators in partnership with Pod People. I'm Dr. Heather Berlin.
Christof Koch:
And I'm Dr. Christof Koch. Thank you.
Your Body’s Operating Manual: Andrew Huberman on the Mind-Body Connection
Your body already holds the tools necessary for peak mental and physical performance – you just need to unlock them. Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch sit down with Stanford neuroscientist and “Huberman Lab” host Andrew Huberman to explore the science of how your brain and body talk to each other, and how you can use that conversation to your advantage. Huberman shares his evidence-based solutions for optimizing brain function, mood, energy, and physical performance in order to learn new skills and behaviors that can transform your life. Huberman’s exploration of the brain-body connection speaks to a central idea of the Perception Box, a framework developed by Elizabeth R. Koch for understanding the forces within us that shape how we see ourselves, relate to others, and move through the world.
Andrew Huberman is a Professor of Neurobiology and Ophthalmology at Stanford University School of Medicine and host of the “Huberman Lab” podcast. His newest book, Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body publishes in September 2026 and culminates years of research, lab work, and conversations with scientists.
Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.
Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.
Join us for new episodes of Science of Perception Box every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Love Science of Perception Box? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend!
Chapters:
00:00 Opening
06:33 Yoga Nidra and Tactical Breathing
09:25 What Helps Addiction
14:18 Physiological Sigh
17:37 Naming Shapes Adoption
23:05 Alcohol Health Consensus
26:20 Gut Microbiome and Nutrition
27:42 Sex and Wellbeing
30:56 Sleep, Aging and Melatonin
32:42 Protocols Book Overview
35:18 Letting Go and Faith
37:56 Psychedelics
39:44 Perception Box Questions
Andrew Huberman:
Knowing that you have the tools or the hardware already installed in you and you just need to know how to operate that, it can be very reassuring to people.
Elizabeth Koch:
Hi, I'm Elizabeth Koch. What's a perception box? It's this invisible mental box that each one of us lives inside, built from the material of our beliefs, life experiences, and the meaning we've made out of those experiences. You could think of it as a kind of reality filter that's constantly shaping how we see ourselves, other people, and the world around us. This podcast explores how. Although the walls of this box are always present, they can expand in moments of curiosity, awe, and wonder, or contract in response to fear, anxiety, and anger.
In each episode, we invite experts to share how to create lasting shifts in our perception. I'd like to introduce our esteemed host, Heather Berlin, Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai and Christof Koch, Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and former president of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.
Welcome to the Science of Perception Box. This week, our guest is Dr. Andrew Huberman. Much of what we experience is shaped by what lives well beneath our conscious minds and the physical sensations in our body, but this doesn't mean we have no agency. According to the Perception Box Framework, once we become aware of those physical sensations and stay present with the feelings, we can actively transform our experience.
Heather Berlin:
Christof, have you ever used a tool or a protocol to expand your perception box?
Christof Koch:
As you may know, I now live on a small island in the Pacific Northwest, just south of Vancouver Island. And just last week to get to here, I had to take one of these tiny planes and it was very windy. You're in the small plane, you go up and down. And the only thing I did... I did that, and I was totally fine. It worked.
Heather Berlin:
Luckily, we have someone who's really been thinking about this issue for a long time. So welcome to the podcast, Andrew Huberman.
Andrew Huberman:
Thank you.
Heather Berlin:
So you've trained as a neuroscientist. What got you personally interested in getting more involved in different wellness tools or exploring that in a deeper way?
Andrew Huberman:
I'm a formerly trained neuroscientist, undergraduate, graduate school, postdoc, and running a lab and so forth. But my interest in biology started long before that when I was a kid. And my interest in what we now call health and wellness, biohacking, et cetera, started when I was in my mid-teens. I was always a seeker of information and reader. So early on I started seeking out information about meditation, and that took me down the path of wanting to understand other ways that I could regulate what I now know as my nervous system. But back then I was also very interested in sports. I got involved in skateboarding, martial arts. I got badly injured skateboarding, and then I was interested in how I could heal more quickly. It was prior to me starting the podcast we started in 2021, but that's when things really started to converge, where we started hearing about breath work, meditation, discussions about psychedelics were really starting to surface for the first time.
Every time I would try something, regardless of what it was called, and regardless of the community that was doing it, I would glean some piece of information that I found helpful. I never really bought into anything wholesale. I didn't join the meditation community. I wasn't a psychedelics devotee or anything like that. And then because I'm a scientist, I would try and look at those things through the lens of physiology first. But rather than think about meditation as some sort of mystical thing that gives you insight into consciousness, I thought, "This is kind of a perceptual exercise."
By that time, I was a vision scientist studying how we encode photons in the world and make sense of them into images and so forth. And I thought, "Oh, when you close your eyes, you remove a lot of sensory input. You devote your focus, your attention to your internal state. Let me just think about this as a perceptual exercise. Why would that change the way I feel when I open my eyes?" And start to think about it through the lens of neuroscience and physiology. And eventually my laboratory did, in collaboration, a clinical trial looking at how different patterns of breathing impact immediate and long-term, what we call autonomic states, how relaxed or stressed you are.
Christof Koch:
This was David Spiegel.
Andrew Huberman:
This was with my colleague David Spiegel, who, he's one of the most unusual and I think interesting psychiatrists in the world because he's a card carrying psychiatrist and believes in all the general tools of psychiatry, but he's also really championed the use of hypnosis, clinical hypnosis as a tool for accelerating plasticity. The way I categorize the different tools for mind-body connection are as follows. First of all, I think of respiration or breath work of any kind that's done deliberately, deliberately hyperventilating, deliberately doing long exhale breathing, box breathing, whichever you choose as a deliberate way of trying to shift one's autonomic state, how much level of alertness versus calmness one has.
Hypnosis is designed to solve a particular problem, which is different than meditation, which I view as a perceptual exercise. You're deliberately placing your perception usually internally, sometimes open monitoring meditation, but usually internally. And the goal there is manyfold. It can be to lower stress. It can be to get a better insight into thoughts and what they are and what they aren't. Over a long period of time, it can alter one's own perception of consciousness and thoughts, but it's a perceptual exercise. And then of course, I think about psychedelics, the classic psychedelics as tools for neuroplasticity.
Heather Berlin:
I think the common theme though is taking things that were typically outside the realm of science, like whether spiritual or consciousness, that's something we're both interested in, but Christof was really at the forefront of that field of saying we can study this through the lens of science. And taking that a step further, you're saying all these other spiritual practices that people have known for hundreds of years, meditation and yoga and breath work, what's the underlying physiology of that? And then once we understand that, can we tap into it and get there quicker and use these tools to help enhance our wellbeing?
Andrew Huberman:
That's exactly right. And for me, now as a public science health educator, it was very clear to me that the things that I found most useful, things like yoga nidra, which I found to be an extremely powerful tool that we could talk about. And I-
Christof Koch:
Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Andrew Huberman:
Sure. Yeah. I took the liberty of doing something which is a little bit heretical and I felt like was indeed unfair to the people who developed yoga nidra, which means yoga sleep, doesn't actually involve any specific movement, and I started calling it non-sleep deep rest. I didn't do that to try and rob the traditional view of it and creation of anything, but I knew about a year into doing the podcast and being a public educator that people hear yoga nidra and they think, "Downward dog, I don't want to do yoga." Eastern, and Americans and Western Europeans just run from it. So how something arrives, the packaging and the naming is extremely important. Yoga nidra, I learned about first in 2017. I went out, I was interested in stress and trauma for studies I was doing in my lab and frankly for my own life and experience. And I went-
Heather Berlin:
You've had stress?
Andrew Huberman:
I've had a little bit of stress. Yeah. Fortunately, I never had to compete with Christof because I selected different topics to work on, but science is a brutal game. I was fortunate that I was able to keep my lab funded consistently. I mean, it's sadly never enough to do all the experiments you would like to do, but that's also probably a good thing. Research science is one of those places where you have to work almost as hard to get the resources to do the work as you do to do the actual work. In any event, the-
Christof Koch:
Yoga. [inaudible 00:08:23].
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah. So yoga nidra was introduced to me by a very talented addiction trauma therapist. He's licensed. His name is Ryan Soave, and he's out in Florida. And I observed him working with heroin addicts and other drug addicts. I fortunately have never had substance abuse issues, but I think we all have dealt with challenging compulsions and stress, et cetera. And he said one of the reasons they're so successful in his clinic is they have them do an hour of yoga nidra every morning. So I started joining them for this. And yoga nidra is an ancient practice where you lie down. Typically, it lasts anywhere from 10, 20 or 30 minutes, but up to an hour. And you do long exhale breathing. Humans deliberately inhale. We actively inhale and we passively exhale. Reptiles do the opposite.
So when you consciously exhale, it activates this respiratory sinus arrhythmia, which sounds like a bad thing, arrhythmia, but it slows your heart rate down through the vagal system. So they do that, and then typically it involves a body scan. And the beautiful thing about yoga nidra is that people are instructed to try and stay awake while being deeply relaxed. It's a wonderful thing because people feel like there's less of a struggle to get to a certain place.
Christof Koch:
So Andrew, how would that help somebody who's addicted to some substance get rid of their or reduce their craving?
Andrew Huberman:
Great question. So first of all, doing yoga nidra has the benefit that it makes you a better sleeper because it is self-directed relaxation. Sleeping better turns out to be the most important thing for our mental health, physical health, and performance, if you will, as well as for overcoming any challenge. And for all addicts, they're in the stress of trying to not use the substance, remove their context-dependent memories, all the kinds of things that benefit from being relaxed. We know that stress drives relapse. The other thing that yoga nidra does is that many people, most of us probably, are not sleeping as much or as well as we would like. When people do yoga nidra, pockets of the brain are going into a deep sleep-like state.
Christof Koch:
You mean local sleep?
Andrew Huberman:
Local sleep. And so it's very restorative. Yoga nidra restores levels of dopamine to very high levels that are only present typically after waking up from a good night's sleep. So this might... here it's conjecture, but that this restoration of dopamine levels might be one of the reasons why, let's say an addict or someone else is dealing with trauma or stress, or just any person wakes up, you've slept six choppy hours, not the eight you would love. Now you're into the day. If you do 10 or 20 minutes or 30 minutes of non-sleep deep rest, yoga nidra, if this result turns out to be true in every case, dopamine gets topped off and now you're in a better position for deliberate action, but also withholding action.
Heather Berlin:
So I have a question. Well, I want to get into, because this is one technique. There's a lot of other things that we can get into, health-related things that can help us in our daily lives. So you had mentioned that we all have struggled with compulsion. I've studied impulsive and compulsive behaviors and addictions, and it's not just to substances. There are behavioral addictions as well.
Andrew Huberman:
Sure.
Heather Berlin:
Shopping, gambling, and the internet addiction. Have you ever struggled with any challenging compulsions in your life that some of these practices might've helped you with?
Andrew Huberman:
Oh, absolutely. Where would you like to begin?
Heather Berlin:
We can make a list.
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah. I think I'm like a good number of people out there in the sense that I both have had aspects of my life that are incredibly regimented and organized, and then aspects of my life where I felt I wasn't completely dysregulated, but that I wasn't able to manage my behavior as well as I would've liked. I will say over the last five years, it's been both embarrassing at some level, but also kind of surprising to me just how powerful of a draw the phone really is. I mean, I now have what I call a supermax prison lockbox that I put my phone in where you can't code out. And I'm somebody who can get up and get through a workout when I don't feel like I want to. I can sit down and write a grant when I don't necessarily want to. I can force my behavior and I can withhold behavior, but I think that either the algorithms are so good or I am so bad, one or the other, that it takes an immense amount of effort at times to really resist the temptation to get that input.
Christof Koch:
Well, I mean, I would say the algorithms are made to get us hooked. That's what social media and the phone does.
Heather Berlin:
But so have any of the techniques that you've discovered in terms of managing your own physiology helped with your compulsion in any way?
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah, tremendously. And I would say overwork and workaholism has been, on the one hand, adaptive, but on the other hand, a somewhat destructive force in my life over the years. And I think that's true for many people. Again, I've been very fortunate that I haven't had substance abuse issues. Ultimately, what I discovered early on and say through the meditation practice and then much later yoga nidra and in between through what would be called running, martial arts, lifting weights and things like that, is that we need two kinds of practices. And the two kinds of practices are real-time tools that you can use in the moment. You study impulsivity, so I'd be curious what your thoughts are, but things that we can use in the moment to regulate our autonomic arousal level and things that we do and that have a long-lasting positive impact.
Christof Koch:
That set our mind in the proper-
Andrew Huberman:
That set our mind in a proper place or set some sort of stage for us to intervene with ourselves. Because this whole notion of stimulus response and the more you can generate a gap, that's all wonderful when you're coming back from Esalen. And I love Esalen, by the way. When you're coming back from Esalen after a long weekend or vacation or a massage or you're like, you're great. You're blissed and you're in control for a couple of weeks. And then everyone relapses back into this reflexive, reactive state.
So the things that have really helped me were the discovery of the physiological side. And it was named that by physiologists in the 1930s. This is this pattern of a double inhale, long exhale that Christof was referring to earlier. It was discovered in the 1930s as a pattern of spontaneous breathing that people and animals, mammals do during sleep. So it turns out that we inhale to get oxygen and we exhale largely to discard carbon dioxide. If levels of carbon dioxide get too high, we feel that as more or less a stress response. In sleep-
Christof Koch:
With panic in extreme cases.
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah, panic. Yeah, you can induce panic if you have people breathe elevated levels of carbon dioxide. So what they discovered was in sleep, spontaneously, people would do this. Okay? A dog does that before it goes down to sleep. When people are crying, they're often in a low level of asphyxiation and then they'll do this and then they recover their breathing.
Christof Koch:
Oh, that's cool.
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah. Yeah. So it turns out that the double inhale, long exhale, there's a circuit for it. It's actually, not to get too technical, but our colleague, Jack Feldman, who discovered the pre-Bötzinger complex, is involved in rhythmic breathing. Anytime it's inhale, exhale, inhale, exhale. A neighboring cluster of neurons, the parafacial nucleus, is involved in generating patterns of breathing, all patterns of breathing, where you double up on inhales or you double up on exhales. I'm using them right now as I speak. You use it when you eat, you use it when you sing, you use it when you speak publicly.
And when you're stressed, eventually the physiological sigh kicks in, but most people don't really allow it to happen. They override it with more and more stress. So it turns out that, and we tested in this study, David Spiegel and I ran this study about a hundred subjects where people deliberately did physiological sighing. And indeed, it's very useful for lowering your level of autonomic arousal immediately, even just one physiological sigh. So big deep inhale through the nose. A second big inhale, which turns out to be a small inhale because your lungs are almost full to maximally inflate the lungs, which allows you to then...
Christof Koch:
You don't hold.
Andrew Huberman:
You don't hold.
Christof Koch:
You don't do double inhale, hold, exhale.
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah. So the reason to... You're right. You do...
Heather Berlin:
It's like a top-up.
Andrew Huberman:
It's a top-off. And the reason is the lungs, as many people may know, it's not just two big bags of air. You have hundreds of millions of little sacks that, because they're a little damp on the inside, they get flat and stuck to one another. So it's like blowing up a balloon at a kid's party. The two inhales help when you're inhaling a balloon, but in this case, you're doing the two inhales through your nose. The long exhale is best done through the mouth, and that immediately lowers heart rate.
And so real-time tools like that I found to be tremendously useful because going up to give a talk, I'm pretty comfortable with public speaking, but if I'm not well slept, if I have a little bit too much coffee, I would be giving a talk at a conference. I notice I'm kind of quaking. What's going on? Well, my autonomic nervous system is a little bit. The hinge on the seesaw is a little loose. One or two of those before you go on, you're set.
Heather Berlin:
So these are sort of biohacks in a way to calm, or at least it-
Christof Koch:
I was talking recently, just a story directly related to that and to your point, the power of marketing. I was talking recently to my brother-in-law with Special Forces in Afghanistan, and he told me about their anti-stress just before they go in or do something real dangerous. And I said, "Oh, yoga nidra." He said, "No, no, tactical breathing."
Andrew Huberman:
Mm-hmm. Right. Exactly.
Heather Berlin:
Same thing, different name.
Andrew Huberman:
Well, this is interesting because at one point my lab, not publicly, but it's okay to talk about now, I had a few collaborations with the special operations community, some in Monterey and some on the East Coast and in Canada. And you can't really give those guys yoga nidra. You can, but you're going to get fewer people recruited. But if you talk to them about physiological sigh or you talk to them about non-sleep deep rest, they're very interested in how they can reset quickly. So there's that.
Heather Berlin:
I want to just get to, because there's a lot of ways that we can... By understanding our innate biology or physiology, we can, I'm going to say hack in, but use some of these things that have naturally evolved to calm us down when we need them in this high stress world. But I want to talk about some other things as well. There's breathing, there's also the mind-gut relationship. How does what we ingest in our body impact us in a way? And also alcohol. There's a lot going on in the realm of alcohol. And what is its impact on our overall health as well as it relates to this mind-gut connection?
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah, great question. And I will say that the physiological sigh or any other breathing technique that emphasizes exhales and therefore calms us down is working through the vagus nerve, which is this neural super highway with connections from the brain outward and from the organs inward to the brain. And that is the basis. A portion of it is the basis for the heart rate slowering that occurs with long exhale breathing in the physiological side. It also turns out that if you want to speed your heart rate up, it's also through that pathway. When you inhale very vigorously, you start to speed your heart rate up. People have heard of heart rate variability. Everyone wants a better HRV. They're waking up in the morning, "What's my HRV? How's my HRV?" HRV, the basis of it is the descending input from the vagus to slow the heart rate down through the sinoatrial node and all this so forth.
So to just step back from your question a tiny bit, my interest in using physiology as the entry point is deliberate, yes, from the standpoint of naming and getting things out more broadly. It's also the one that allows me to orient myself in the vast landscape of nomenclature and histories and people claiming ownership of things, which I don't. You have to stand someplace to make sense of all this, to see where the connections really exist. So I just wanted to mention that because I think it is important for people who prefer a non-physiological view of things. Many times, people who are practiced in yoga and its traditions will say, "Wait, what you're talking about is pranayama." I'll say, "Great." But if I tell someone else pranayama and explain what it is and they're on board, great. But people... Here's my strong belief. Whether and how people use a tool strongly depends on how they learned about that tool.
Christof Koch:
It's a narrative. It's a narrative [inaudible 00:21:19], and pranayma for some sounds woo-woo and Eastern and far out and not congenial to their own tradition. But if you call it tactical breathing, then yes, I'm all in.
Heather Berlin:
Well, that's all about our perception box, right?
Andrew Huberman:
Yes.
Heather Berlin:
How you perceive something and the way you perceive it and frame it is how you're going to experience the same physiologic phenomenon.
Andrew Huberman:
One thing that's nice is to be able to talk about physiology that exists in all of us. The mechanism, the vagus nerve, the phrenic nerve that controls diaphragmatic breathing. Knowing that you have the tools or the hardware already installed in you, and you just need to know how to operate that, it can be very reassuring to people because then it becomes less about what's out there, what you can afford, what you can access, what something's called. And just we all are born with a phrenic nerve and a vagus nerve, a parafacial nucleus, a pre-Bötzinger complex, and we can all do these things. And the nice thing is they work the first time and every time.
The challenge with things like meditation, which of course I subscribe to, is that it's hard for people to know if they did it right. And if people don't feel a big shift with something the first time, they're very unlikely to go back to it.
Christof Koch:
They need the positive feedback mechanism. Yeah, relatively quickly.
Andrew Huberman:
They really need it. They really do. They need to feel differently, quickly. And when they're the person generating that and they can do it alone and not just in the context of a group or a weekend away, I think that's really powerful. And so there's that.
Heather Berlin:
But the other aspects of outside of the breathing, there's other behaviors that we can do that can help with our wellbeing. But I do want to talk about other behaviors like what we eat, what we ingest, what we drink, how we interact with other people. What are other general things we can do in our life as a long-term goal that can help our underlying physiology?
Christof Koch:
So what's your point of view for instance, physiology and alcohol? Short-term, I mean long-term particular. Thinking.
Andrew Huberman:
Okay. I've spent a lot of time with this literature because every so often you'll start to see what we heard for a while, which was that some alcohol, especially red wine, is better for us than not.
Christof Koch:
One glass or two glass.
Heather Berlin:
But I don't want your personal take. I want the scientific consensus take.
Andrew Huberman:
So my colleague at Stanford, Dr. Keith Humphreys, who's in our psychiatry department, and I spoke about this recently, his laboratory, and he's a clinician as well, have looked at the entire literature, every which way, including the studies that concluded that some alcohol is better than none. And here's the clear takeaway. So this is not just my stance, it's also what's been printed by Stanford Media and by Keith and colleagues. And he's a very objective guy. Zero is better than any if your sole interest is your biological health.
Christof Koch:
Wait, so it's really linear, no threshold model.
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah. Most adult non-alcoholics can probably have two drinks per week without significantly increasing their cancer risk or other risk. There is a significant increase in breast-
Christof Koch:
Do we have to hear that?
Andrew Huberman:
Breast cancer.
Christof Koch:
Do we have to listen to that?
Heather Berlin:
I want to hear this.
Andrew Huberman:
People don't like to... Well, I was figuring-
Heather Berlin:
Go on. Let start.
Andrew Huberman:
Well, so see-
Heather Berlin:
Zero is the best. Zero is the best.
Andrew Huberman:
Zero is best. Any cardiac benefit that's afforded by a couple glasses of wine per week is greatly offset by the cancer risk. So we need to talk about relative risk.
Heather Berlin:
You can have it... They call it this resveratrol. What is it?
Andrew Huberman:
Resveratrol?
Heather Berlin:
Yes, exactly. That was in the skin of the red, the grapes. You can just eat... There are other ways to get that.
Christof Koch:
Well, you have to do it at very high doses-
Heather Berlin:
It's like a pill.
Andrew Huberman:
You would have to-
Christof Koch:
... resveratrol.
Andrew Huberman:
You would take grapeseed extract. You'd have to ingest tons and tons of them.
Heather Berlin:
What you're saying is the negatives outweigh the benefits or that they-
Andrew Huberman:
I mean, it's classified as a-
Heather Berlin:
... cancel each other out.
Andrew Huberman:
... class one carcinogen over in a lot of areas of the world.
Christof Koch:
What about the social benefits? If we sit together here, six hours from now, we have a glass of wine, we're social, we are happier.
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah. And marking a transition from workday to non-workday.
Heather Berlin:
But you can get that in other ways. You don't need alcohol to relax. That's my philosophy.
Andrew Huberman:
You don't need it. I mean, alcohol's a very interesting one because, well, okay, there's also, you mentioned the gut microbiome. I believe that many of the detrimental effects of alcohol are not direct reflection of it as a "poison", which it is. For instance, if you drink within six hours of sleep, you're going to have less REM sleep and deep sleep, period.
Now, people always say, "Well, cannabis." Cannabis will nuke your REM sleep. Anyone who has been a regular cannabis user, even semi-regular cannabis user who then stops taking cannabis, their dreams are wild. They will tell you that because-
Heather Berlin:
It's like a rebound effect.
Andrew Huberman:
... they're in REM rebound for years of-
Heather Berlin:
Suppression.
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah, for years of suppression. I also think an indirect negative effect of alcohol is on the gut microbiome. Now, all of that said, I do think that there can be a social and stress lowering benefit of alcohol. Two drinks per week perhaps being the upper threshold, maybe a few more for certain people, depending on what else you're doing. If you're taking great care of your cardiovascular health, if you are doing some things to support your gut health, and I'll just say the best way that we're aware of from good studies to support your gut microbiome is to ingest low sugar fermented foods.
Sauerkraut, natto-
Christof Koch:
Kimchi.
Andrew Huberman:
... Kimchi, kombucha, low sugar versions, Greek yogurt, I'm partial to Bulgarian yogurt. Some of them experienced big increases in inflammatory markers. Big. And other people got reduction. So we hear that fiber, which I believe is good for us, is very good for our gut microbiome. Not everybody, that it reduces our so-called inflammatome or inflammatory markers. Turns out in some people it doesn't. And it turns out that some people find that broccoli makes them feel not well, that they can't digest it well. So you have to be-
Christof Koch:
So it's a question [inaudible 00:27:20].
Andrew Huberman:
You have to experiment and figure out what-
Heather Berlin:
It's individual differences.
Andrew Huberman:
Individual differences.
Heather Berlin:
With our physiology.
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah. So there is a phenomenon where people drink, they feel relaxed, they sleep well enough. The next day you can see a spike in cortisol and anxiety.
Heather Berlin:
See, that's really interesting, I think, that it's after alcohol has come out of your... I mean, with cocaine or others, you get this high, but then you pay for it the next day with a low. And the same kind of thing with alcohol is that you get the sort of relief of the tension and the relaxation, but then you actually get an increase in stress response the next day.
Another behavior I think we can all get behind is sex. How much does that contribute to our overall health and wellbeing? What is the relationship between frequency of sex, quality of sex? It's another dopamine enhancing activity.
Christof Koch:
Oxytocin.
Heather Berlin:
Oxytocin, human touch. I mean, it checks a lot of boxes. Have you thought about the relationship between sex and overall wellbeing and physical health, mental health? How much should we be having? Should we be doing it all the time?
Andrew Huberman:
I think the data on this... I have thought a lot about this as I imagine most people have. Everyone talks about sex as we all know what it is, and we have some sense of what it may or may not look like for us. But no one's really talking about whether or not, despite frequency per week, I mean, are we talking about 20 minutes? Are we talking about five minutes? Are we talking about-
Heather Berlin:
I mean, should it be once a day, twice, once a week? What's the recommendation? What is the scientific-
Andrew Huberman:
There's very little science on this.
Heather Berlin:
I'm just saying you can get highs in lots of different ways. There should be research on this.
Andrew Huberman:
I get hundreds, if not thousands, of questions about pornography. The easy accessibility of pornography now and the fear of sort of post-sexual interaction shaming on social media has led young men to, so I'm thinking teens and 20s and 30s to turn to pornography. Then we talk about sex versus masturbation. And then in modern times, there's this sort of unspoken thing like, "Oh, masturbation is kind of not great for guys, but might be healthier for women because they are having an opportunity to explore their bodies, they have a more complex response perhaps." The truth is there just haven't been very candid discussions about it because very few people are willing to reveal what they're doing except at the extremes.
Heather Berlin:
But we have breath work and how we eat and how we sleep and our physical activity and human connections and social contact. And I think sex can be part of the conversation as well.
Andrew Huberman:
I will say this, not to bring it back to nuts and bolts physiology, but it is very clear that-
Heather Berlin:
No, you should bring it back to nuts and bolts and physiology.
Andrew Huberman:
... you want your morning cortisol high. It's why you wake up in the morning. Viewing bright light in the morning, ideally from sunlight, will spike your cortisol even further. This is extremely important to do for everyone. Exercise will do it. Caffeine will do it. Movement to the body. If you're waking up, you're indoors, you're scrolling your phone, that's not bright enough to stimulate this response. Kind of slowly move into the day, which I often like to do. That cortisol peak shifts. You get what's called a flattening of the cortisol curve. This is why many people in the evening have a hard time falling asleep or at night where they fall asleep and then at 3:00 AM they're waking up. It's a shift in the cortisol curve.
Christof Koch:
So no physical... I mean-
Heather Berlin:
The one exception is sex.
Andrew Huberman:
The one exception is sex.
Heather Berlin:
Yes. Knew it.
Andrew Huberman:
And here's the reason. There's actually good physiology on this. The "postcoital bliss" relaxation response, yes, it involves oxytocin, vasopressin. There's a cocktail of hormones and neurotransmitters, but it also leads to a dramatic reduction in heart rate that people generally sleep quite well after-
Heather Berlin:
Certainly men do.
Andrew Huberman:
... after orgasm.
Heather Berlin:
Yeah. Sorry.
Christof Koch:
That's not-
Heather Berlin:
I'm sorry. I don't mean to gender stereotype or anything.
Andrew Huberman:
So when you go to sleep at night, your cortisol is at its all time low, and then it stays low through deep sleep. Somewhere around halfway through your sleep night, you transition from predominantly deep slow wave sleep to REM, as you know, and your cortisol starts to rise. Once your cortisol hits a certain threshold, you wake up.
Christof Koch:
So what happens as we age? Because typically older people get up earlier and earlier. Everything shifts towards earlier times.
Andrew Huberman:
Well, I like the woo explanation of this actually.
Christof Koch:
What is the woo explanation?
Heather Berlin:
The woo-woo. It's the woo-woo.
Andrew Huberman:
The woo explanation. You could actually look at it, the Allen Brain, and I wish you guys would do that. So there's this theory that the pineal becomes calcified as we get older.
Christof Koch:
Which seems to be true.
Heather Berlin:
Is that true? Really?
Andrew Huberman:
And that the melatonin, the only source of... Well, not true. The only source of melatonin that makes us sleepy in the body comes from the pineal. It turns out every cell has melatonin. It acts as an antioxidant in our cells, but that the pineal is calcified. And so while I'm not a big fan of melatonin supplementation for most people, as people hit their 70s and 80s, a half a milligram of melatonin can be very helpful to people.
Christof Koch:
A tiny dose.
Andrew Huberman:
Tiny dose. Most people who take three milligrams of melatonin or something like that, they're setting themselves up for trouble. I mean, it's not going to destroy you, but half or even less of a milligram.
Heather Berlin:
The melatonin is not something good to take to sleep as an average.
Andrew Huberman:
Not regularly.
Heather Berlin:
Yeah.
Andrew Huberman:
Occasionally it should be fine, but most people need very, very little. And there gets into the whole thing of what's really in the bottle. But you go with a reputable brand and take half a milligram even if you have to break a tablet.
Heather Berlin:
When you're older.
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah. Or if you really need to get to sleep.
Christof Koch:
I mean, to help with a sleep lag, typically I take one or two.
Heather Berlin:
Jet lag.
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah. Better that than an Ambien.
Heather Berlin:
But you wouldn't take it every night to try to sleep.
Andrew Huberman:
I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't do that.
Heather Berlin:
So you have a bunch of protocols that's your new book and-
Christof Koch:
In fact, your book. Maybe you can briefly tell us about your book.
Andrew Huberman:
Oh, yeah. So the book is called Protocols: A User Manual for the Human Brain and Body. And it's chapter on sleep, chapter on stress, chapter on microbiome, motivation, neuroplasticity. And it's very straightforward. It was designed to be a lookup table type book. There's a little bit of story in there.
Christof Koch:
So it's really protocols, a set of protocols.
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah. It's really designed so that if somebody's like, "I want to get control of my stress, what can I do is real time control." I've been spending a lot of time surveying the landscape of nutrition and what the key takeaways I believe are based on the science. And there's one on creativity, a section on creativity, and one on relationship to self. I taught and I still teach developmental neurobiology and the notion that you take two cells, sperm and egg, and it self-organizes into a nervous system that, sure, needs some curating once the child is born. But it is so spectacular that that takes us, me anyway, into the realm of almost the spiritual.
Heather Berlin:
But a very similar experience as a scientist studying the human brain and how complex it is and that it self-organizes in such a way that it allows us to have conscious perception. I mean, then you get into the realm of like, could this have just been by accident or evolution? It gives me a sense of wonder at least that there might be something more. But for your protocols and how do the stories that we tell ourselves about ourselves, how does that relate to this concept of the Perception Box and not just the body, but the mind? So we're talking a lot about the body, but how does this relate to our mental world?
Andrew Huberman:
Yeah. Well, for that, I think about this a lot. And these days I think, "Thank goodness for the psychologists," because even though their instruments of experimentation are different and a lot of things are unfortunately still cloaked in naming, that's the hard part, I feel like they've chipped away at some of the key aspects of the mind that most people care about, at least at first pass.
For instance, in writing the book, I had a whole section on motivation. And of course my colleague Carol Dweck is growth mindset, Alia Crum, stress is performance enhancing mindset. You start merging these things and you see, "Oh, people can really learn and be better." But something like motivation, everyone would like to feel more of a sense of urgency around certain things. So when it comes to discussions around the mind, I sort of hand it over to the psychologist. When it gets to issues of, and you mentioned kind of spirituality and things beyond our control, I have to say the biggest shift for me in the last five years has been the... I now thoroughly believe in God 100% for me. And the reason is very simple, which is that I've seen so many people, including myself, struggle to engage what we in nerd speak call top-down regulation to try and do something or not do something and really, really struggle with that.
But then you give over that control. You acknowledge, you surrender. "I can't do it. I just can't do it on my own. I need people, I need support, but I can't do it." You surrender it. This is part of 12 step. You give over to a higher power. And all of a sudden people are able to do it. So this defies logic.
Heather Berlin:
This is what I would say, and this is not to promote my book, but my book is called The Fine Art of Losing Control. It's going to come out next year.
Andrew Huberman:
Awesome.
Heather Berlin:
But the main premise of it is that we gain more control over our impulses and our compulsivity counterintuitively by letting go, by decreasing activation in the prefrontal cortex. And that's what I allude to things like AA and things where it says, "Let go, give up to..." whatever you want to call it, whether it's a higher power, a God, spiritual, you let go of your ego. The trying to control is the thing that actually makes you have less control. And it's the letting go. And I think from a neuroscience perspective, that it's these automatic unconscious processes that we're letting them do their job. And that's where we can heal.
Christof Koch:
You know the Serenity Prayer?
Andrew Huberman:
Yes.
Christof Koch:
I think that's very appropriate here. "Oh God, give me the..." What is it? "The courage to recognize what I need to change, the serenity to accept what I cannot change and the wisdom to tell the difference."
Andrew Huberman:
I mean, there's so much wisdom in AA and the other 12-step communities. Actually, Keith Humphreys, as an addiction researcher and clinician, was quite skeptical of the 12-step thing. You hear it's a cult, et cetera. So they ran a study. They did a meta-analysis of a bunch of different 12-step data sets and ran their own studies and found that it's perhaps the most effective treatment for at least alcoholism.
Heather Berlin:
But also, by the way, it might be one of the reasons why the psychedelics work in that it also shoots you into a place of letting go of the ego and connecting with something greater than oneself. And there might be just something in that practice, whether it's through a spiritual or religious practice, AA or psychedelics, about the letting go of your ego.
Andrew Huberman:
The more interesting question to me is, do you need the psychedelic experience to get the beneficial plasticity?
Heather Berlin:
Correct.
Andrew Huberman:
I do think that there are insights that come from that exploration, but I know people are trying to modify these molecules to create-
Christof Koch:
Many are trying to biohack. However, we do know, certainly for depression, that the therapeutic efficiency is directly proportional to the extent that you have a mystical experience, assayed at least by the MEQ-30. So to the extent that people dissolve their self and feel they become one with the universe and that's a positive experience, to that extent, they're likely to have significant traumatic drops in their MADRS scaled, all the depression scales.
Heather Berlin:
But however, we had actually, I think he's a colleague of yours, Boris, who's at Stanford.
Christof Koch:
Boris Heifets, yeah.
Heather Berlin:
Yeah, Boris Heifets, who's an anesthesiologist who gave people ketamine under anesthesia. So they got the physiological effect of the drug without the psychological effect and... People with depression. And it was basically the people that had the most significant positive outcome were, it was a placebo effect that they believed... because it was a placebo controlled trial and they believed they had the ketamine and that really had an impact.
Christof Koch:
Partly it's a narrative. The question, is it only the placebo effect or not? And it's very difficult of course to mask.
Heather Berlin:
Yeah, go on. Sorry.
Andrew Huberman:
Well, I was going to say that with ketamine, because it's a dissociative anesthetic or with MDMA because it's an pathogen. And I think I would love more... I'm not criticizing anyone because I myself am using the word psychedelics, but I think in order for it to move forward clinically and with the FDA and to be handled properly, it needs more subtle languaging around it because ketamine and MDMA are far and away-
Heather Berlin:
It's a mechanism.
Andrew Huberman:
... different than Ibogaine and psilocybin and LSD.
Heather Berlin:
On that note, on every episode, we ask one question to open up our own Perception Box. And this week I get to choose the question. So neither of you know what the question is. So have you ever found yourself acting in a way acting like the very type of person that you can't stand? And what was the circumstance?
Christof Koch:
Sadly, I have. I've been in relationship with... a very intense relationship that was very volatile and I acted very often like a complete asshole.
Heather Berlin:
Oh, that's a good one. I know exactly what he's referring to.
Christof Koch:
I did want to and I found myself and I have lasting regrets about that.
Heather Berlin:
Okay. That's good to know. So you can live and learn from your experiences.
Christof Koch:
You can live and learn from your experiences.
Andrew Huberman:
Great answer. Thanks for saying that so that I didn't have to. Did I ever find myself in a place acting in a way that I was surprised and later regretted?
Heather Berlin:
Or acting like a type of person that you don't like.
Andrew Huberman:
It's taken me a long time to sort of come to terms with it. There were times when my ambition led me to neglect people that I really care about to the point where I kept looking at myself and going like, "What is going on here?"
Heather Berlin:
I want to thank you for being open and sharing that. And I think it's important for everyone to learn from their mistakes and try to continually become a better person. So now we're going to lighten it up a little bit. We're going to play a little game. It's called the Huberman Toolkit, Keep or Cut. Okay? All right. This is going to be like a rapid fire.
Christof Koch:
[inaudible 00:41:38].
Heather Berlin:
We're going to ask you about different wellness tools. Then we're going to ask you whether we should cut it or keep the tool. So keep or cut alcohol.
Andrew Huberman:
Cut it. Your life will be so much better. And one editorial here. Alcohol is the one substance that people give you a hard time for not using it, and that's all about them.
Heather Berlin:
Intermittent fasting.
Andrew Huberman:
If it works for you, I don't tend to be hungry in the morning, so I'm happy to eat my first bite of food at 11 and my last bite of food somewhere around 7:30, 8:00 PM. But if you wake up hungry, that's actually kind of a good sign. And some people just don't feel well when they're trying to restrict their food window and they're just better off distributing their food.
Heather Berlin:
Yeah, sometimes I can't sleep if I'm hungry. So then yeah, it's a balance for me.
Christof Koch:
But it does work for mice in terms of their immune system. There was this nice study out of the Salk Institute that in terms of their treatment of their immune system and cytokines, et cetera, intermittent fast.
Andrew Huberman:
Right. And it's nice also to be able to go some period of time without having to eat. If you're very regular with your food times distributed through all your waking hours, every two to three hours and suddenly you can't eat, it can be very dysregulating at the level of blood sugar and anxiety and stuff.
Heather Berlin:
Supplements for sleep. Keep or cut?
Andrew Huberman:
Keep the right ones. Magnesium 3 and 8 or bisglycinate, a little bit of thionine, apigenin, which is chamomile extract. If you have trouble sleeping, always start with behavioral tools. But I'm always behavioral tools first, get your nutrition timing right, and only then add supplements. But sure, they can help.
Heather Berlin:
Okay. Sex, keep or cut.
Andrew Huberman:
Definitely keep.
Heather Berlin:
That's one I'm on board.
Andrew Huberman:
Healthy sex, healthy partnership. Awesome. Sex in the context of a bad relationship? No.
Heather Berlin:
Cut.
Andrew Huberman:
No, cut. Cut the whole relationship.
Heather Berlin:
Red light therapy. Keep or cut?
Andrew Huberman:
Keep. But get your red light, which is basically long wavelength light, ideally from sunlight. We're all afraid of the sun because of excess UV exposure. But keep in mind in the middle of the day when the sun is overhead is when you get a lot of UV exposure, when it's low in the sky. You're gleaning a lot of the medium and long wavelength light, including red light when the sun is low in the sky without the UV.
Heather Berlin:
Okay, two more. Ice baths, keep or cut.
Andrew Huberman:
If you want to become more resilient, keep. If you don't care to become more resilient because you already are dealing with enough stress in life, cut.
Heather Berlin:
Breath work apps. Keep or cut.
Andrew Huberman:
I personally like to just do breath work in my head, but if an app helps you, great.
Heather Berlin:
And finally, sauna. Keep or cut.
Andrew Huberman:
Great if you have access to a dry sauna. And if you are a male looking to conceive children in the next 90 days, bring an ice pack in and put it outside your shorts because you will dramatically deplete the number of motile sperm. What are you going to do? Got to live your life.
Heather Berlin:
On that note, got to live your life. I want to thank you, Andrew Huberman, for joining us today.
Andrew Huberman:
Oh, thank you.
Heather Berlin:
And if you'd like to learn more about your own Perception Box, spend some time this week answering the same Perception Box questions that we asked our guests and check out other questions on our website at unlikelycollaborators.com. You can also subscribe to our YouTube channel and watch the show or listen wherever you get your podcasts. This has been Science of Perception Box created by unlikely collaborators in partnership with Pod People. I'm Dr. Heather Berlin.
Christof Koch:
And I'm Dr. Christof Koch. Thank you.
Your body already holds the tools necessary for peak mental and physical performance – you just need to unlock them. Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch sit down with Stanford neuroscientist and “Huberman Lab” host Andrew Huberman to explore the science of how your brain and body talk to each other, and how you can use that conversation to your advantage. Huberman shares his evidence-based solutions for optimizing brain function, mood, energy, and physical performance in order to learn new skills and behaviors that can transform your life. Huberman’s exploration of the brain-body connection speaks to a central idea of the Perception Box, a framework developed by Elizabeth R. Koch for understanding the forces within us that shape how we see ourselves, relate to others, and move through the world.
Andrew Huberman is a Professor of Neurobiology and Ophthalmology at Stanford University School of Medicine and host of the “Huberman Lab” podcast. His newest book, Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body publishes in September 2026 and culminates years of research, lab work, and conversations with scientists.
Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.
Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.
Join us for new episodes of Science of Perception Box every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Love Science of Perception Box? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend!
Chapters:
00:00 Opening
06:33 Yoga Nidra and Tactical Breathing
09:25 What Helps Addiction
14:18 Physiological Sigh
17:37 Naming Shapes Adoption
23:05 Alcohol Health Consensus
26:20 Gut Microbiome and Nutrition
27:42 Sex and Wellbeing
30:56 Sleep, Aging and Melatonin
32:42 Protocols Book Overview
35:18 Letting Go and Faith
37:56 Psychedelics
39:44 Perception Box Questions
In a world shaped by dating apps, endless choices, and constant digital interaction, many people feel more disconnected and uncertain about relationships than ever before. In this Spark Salon, Marisa T. Cohen explores the hidden emotional patterns shaping modern love, from attachment and vulnerability to rejection, perception, and communication. Blending relationship science with real-world insight, she examines how our past experiences, assumptions, and unconscious beliefs influence how we seek, interpret, and experience connection.
Drawing from psychology, clinical practice, and years of research on relationships, Dr. Cohen explores what it means to date more intentionally in an age of constant swiping and digital noise. From communication and emotional availability to the stories we carry about love and rejection, she offers a thoughtful framework for building relationships that feel more grounded, mutual, and meaningful.
.jpg)
How much of your energy is focused on trying to change people who aren't ready to change? Best-selling author and podcast host Mel Robbins joins Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch to explore what happens when you stop trying to control others and start reclaiming your own life. Robbins calls it the “Let Them Theory”: a deceptively simple idea that has struck a nerve with millions worldwide who are using it to address frustration, anxiety, their need for control, and more.
Mel’s “Let Them Theory” touches on a central idea of the Perception Box, a framework developed by Elizabeth R. Koch for understanding the forces within us that shape how we see ourselves, relate to others, and move through the world.
Mel Robbins is a #1 New York Times bestselling author and host of the award-winning “Mel Robbins Podcast”, with more than 40 million followers worldwide. Her book The Let Them Theory was the top-selling nonfiction title of 2025, selling seven million copies in nine months.
Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.
Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.
Join us for new episodes of Science of Perception Box every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Love Science of Perception Box? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend!
Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information.
Chapters:
05:09 Introducing Mel Robbins
06:43 Parents And Instinct to Rescue
12:32 Helping Without Pushback
14:27 Annoying Spouse Habits
19:00 “Let Them, Let Me” Boundaries
21:03 Losing Control In Modern Life
26:01 The Cold Tea Test
27:12 Flow State Reset
28:51 Why Let Them Works
31:48 Let Them Let Me Boundaries
33:28 Radical Acceptance in Relationships
37:17 Perception Box Reflections
40:24 People Pleasing as Control
43:01 Let Them or Step In Game
Dr. Camilo Ortiz, clinical psychologist and creator of Independence Therapy, joins hosts Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch to unpack why the instinct in modern parenting is to protect kids from every risk may be backfiring. Dr. Ortiz explains how a child's Perception BoxTM starts forming almost as soon as they can speak, why parents today wildly overestimate danger despite living in the safest era on record, and how everyday tasks such as chopping vegetables, walking to the store alone can rebuild kids' confidence and resilience.
Dr. Camilo Ortiz is board-certified in behavioral and cognitive therapy. He holds an MS and PhD in Clinical Psychology from the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, and serves as a tenured associate psychology professor at Long Island University, bringing 20 years of clinical experience to his role.
Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.
Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.
Chapters:
06:39 Independence With Guardrails
13:03 Freedom Versus Neglect
16:26 Getting Lost Builds Confidence
18:55 “When Then” Parenting
23:52 Why Parents Overprotect
28:27 Independence Therapy Basics
31:01 When Freedom Backfires
42:07 Independence Or Interference
Join us for new episodes of Science of Perception Box every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Love Science of Perception Box? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend!
Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information.
.jpg)
Why do two people witness the same event and walk away with entirely different experiences of what happened? Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch return for Season 2 of Science of Perception Box, exploring the invisible framework, the Perception Box™, that shapes how your brain constructs reality, interprets experience, and defines your sense of self. Each week, they sit down with guests including Mel Robbins, Andrew Huberman and Sam Harris to unpack how perception is built, and how you can gain more agency over your own. New episodes weekly.
Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.
Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.
Join us for new episodes of Science of Perception Box every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Love Science of Perception Box? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend. You can even do both!
Chris Gardner refused to let the circumstances of his childhood define the limits of his future.
In this episode of Corner Office, created in partnership with The Wall Street Journal Custom Content and Unlikely Collaborators, Gardner explores how questioning the beliefs shaped by poverty, violence, and rejection helped him transform hardship into possibility and inspired his lifelong mission to create opportunity for others.
.jpg)
BJ Miller, MD, Katherine Shear, MD, and Paul Bloom, PhD reframe grief as a natural, necessary response to love and loss — instead of a disorder to fix on a deadline. Drawing from neuroscience, psychiatry, and philosophy, they explain why grief can resemble love in the brain, why mourning often takes months or years, and how modern culture makes loss harder by rushing people toward “normal” before they’ve had time to change.
.jpg)
Science can explain how we think, connect, and perceive reality. But it also invites us into something deeper: awe, wonder, and a greater understanding of what it means to be human.
Neuroscientist and physician Andrew Newberg, psychiatrist and happiness researcher Robert Waldinger, and theoretical physicist Jim Al-Khalili explore the intersections of science, consciousness, meaning, and human flourishing—revealing how discovery itself can become a path to enlightenment and awe.
What do you do when you don’t feel loved?
In a world where we are more connected than ever, many people still feel unseen, misunderstood, or alone. The issue is not always about how much love we have in our lives, but how we experience it.
In this Spark Salon, renowned psychologist and best-selling author Sonja Lyubomirsky explores how our internal lens shapes the way we give, receive, and interpret love. Drawing from her book How to Feel Loved, she challenges the instinct to earn love by presenting our best selves, and instead points to the power of authenticity, including our imperfections and vulnerabilities.
This session explores how the way we show up in our relationships, what we express, what we hold back, and how we respond to others shapes whether love is actually felt on both sides. How do small shifts in how we communicate and engage change whether someone feels seen, valued, and understood? And how, in turn, does that transform our own experience of being loved?
Blending research from well-being and relationship science, Lyubomirsky introduces a set of core relational mindsets that can shift how we experience connection in everyday life, helping close the gap between being loved and actually feeling it.
What does it really mean when you feel lonely? The answer depends on your perception.
In this video, Robert Waldinger, MD, Kasley Killam, MPH, and Ethan Kross, PhD explore why loneliness has become so common and how it affects both the mind and the body. They explain why friendships are disappearing, how loneliness changes our health, and why being alone doesn’t always have to be a bad thing. Instead of treating loneliness as a personal failure, they suggest seeing it as a signal that helps us understand what we need and how to reconnect.
What if the voice in your head is less of a witness and more of an interpreter? Two neuroscientists discuss the brain’s drive to explain, narrate, and make everything add up.
Stories do not just entertain us; they may be one of the main ways our brains rehearse experience, assign meaning, and turn scattered moments into something that feels like a self. We are constantly sorting actions, memories and emotion into a version of events that feels coherent enough to live inside. Neuroscientists Michael Gazzaniga, PhD and Dean Buonomano, PhD draw on split-brain research to explain the left hemisphere’s “Interpreter”: the brain’s tendency to create explanations for behavior, even when it does not have the full picture. The instinct to create narratives likely shapes far more than self-understanding. It may underpin identity, belief, and the desire to belong in the world.
.jpg)
The brain isn't separate from the body. It depends on it. Three scientists explain the biology behind one of science's most under-explored relationships.
Your brain didn't evolve in isolation. It evolved to run the economy of your body, and every heartbeat, breath, and moment of thirst or anxiety is evidence of that system at work.
Neuroscientist and author Aditi Nerurkar, neuroscientist Wendy Suzuki, and neurologist-philosopher Antonio Damasio break down the science of the mind-body connection: why it exists, how it works, and why understanding it can change the way you experience the world.
Every time you move your body, your brain gets what one neuroscientist calls a “bubble bath” of dopamine, serotonin, and growth factors. Here’s how to activate it.
Neuroscientists Wendy Suzuki, PhD, Samuel Wang, PhD, and Gary Small, MD explain how movement increases blood flow, boosts growth factors like BDNF, and floods the brain with mood-lifting neurochemicals. The brain and body are in constant conversation, and plasticity means your wiring is never fixed. According to Suzuki, even ten minutes of walking can shift your brain’s chemistry immediately, flooding it in a ‘bubble bath’ of positive neurochemicals.
In other words, the way you use your body today shapes how your brain works tomorrow.
Bad news: your sense of self is made up. The good news is, you’re able to change it. Neuroscience and psychology explain.
Perception feels stable. Your sense of self feels solid. Yet neuroscientist Heather Berlin, psychologist Ethan Kross and neuroscientist Nicole Vignola explain that both are created by the brain. Through prediction, memory and neural pruning, the mind builds a narrative that feels coherent and fixed, even though modern science suggests that it’s continually shaped by pre-existing beliefs and experience. Seeing the construction clearly is the first step toward altering it.
Have you ever woken up after a dream and thought to yourself, “That made absolutely no sense”? According to modern neuroscience, there’s a reason why dreams feel so abstract and bizarre. Two sleep experts discuss.
Every 90 minutes, our bodies go paralyzed while our brains become more active than during waking life. Sleep psychologist Dr. Shelby Harris and neuroscientist Dr. Patrick McNamara, Associate Professor of Neurology at Boston University, dig into one of the most fascinating mysteries in human biology: why we dream and what our brains are actually doing during REM sleep. They explore competing theories of what dreaming is for, McNamara makes a compelling case that REM sleep may have been a key driver of early human creativity, and both reflect on why reclaiming our reverence for the dream state could change the way we think and create.
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
Happiness researchers Robert Waldinger MD, Tal Ben-Shahar PhD, and Peter Baumann explain why the happiest people aren’t happy all the time.
Psychiatrist Robert Waldinger, MD, psychologist Tal Ben-Shahar, PhD, and author-entrepreneur Peter Baumann share what 85 years of research and lived experience reveal about happiness. They explain why chasing it directly often backfires—and how strong relationships, mindfulness, and embracing every emotion can build a baseline of positivity that actually lasts.
.jpg)
Humans have always had religion. What does this say about our minds? Reza Aslan, PhD, Lisa Miller, PhD, and Rob Bell, MDiv, explain.
Why has religion been part of humanity since the beginning? Religious scholar Reza Aslan, PhD, clinical psychologist Lisa Miller, PhD, and former pastor Rob Bell, MDiv, explore innate spiritual instincts, the neuroscience of belief, and how faith and science both seek truth. They discuss substance dualism, religion’s role in resilience and mental health, and why our brains may be wired to find meaning, connection, and a sense of something greater.
About Reza Aslan, PhD:
Reza Aslan is a religious scholar, writer, and professor. Author of Zealot, he explores faith, identity, and culture, bringing religious history into contemporary conversations.
About Lisa Miller, PhD:
Lisa Miller is a clinical psychologist and Columbia University professor. She researches spirituality and mental health, authoring The Spiritual Child and The Awakened Brain on the science of faith.
About Rob Bell, MDiv:
Rob Bell is an author, teacher, and former pastor known for Love Wins. He explores spirituality, creativity, and the intersection of faith and modern life.
.jpg)
People make decisions about your confidence before you ever speak. Authors Robert Greene and Daniel Shapiro explain how posture, presence, and even silence communicate more than words ever could.
Oftentimes, our most effective form of communication happens before we even open our mouths. Best-selling author Robert Greene and conflict negotiation expert Daniel Shapiro reveal how body language silently shapes our identity, influence, and power. From nonverbal dominance to mastering conflict, they break down why we lose arguments and explain how to win them without conflict. By mastering these subtle signals, anyone can master their own influence and create deeper trust, stronger presence, and lasting impact without ever saying a word.
.jpg)
Your brain makes habits stick. The good news? The same science shows how to replace the bad ones.
Why are bad habits so hard to break?
Neuroscientist Carl Hart, PhD, journalist Charles Duhigg, and psychologist Adam Alter, PhD explain how your brain wires habits as cue-routine-reward loops that control nearly half of your daily life. They show why willpower alone rarely works, why technology fuels new forms of addiction, and why habits can only be replaced, not erased.
About Carl Hart, PhD:
Dr. Hart is an Associate Professor of Psychology in both the Departments of Psychiatry and Psychology at Columbia University, and Director of the Residential Studies and Methamphetamine Research Laboratories at the New York State Psychiatric Institute. A major focus of Dr. Hart’s research is to understand complex interactions between drugs of abuse and the neurobiology and environmental factors that mediate human behavior and physiology.
About Charles Duhigg:
Charles Duhigg is a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and the author of The Power of Habit, which spent over three years on bestseller lists and has been translated into 40 languages, and Smarter Faster Better, also a bestseller. Mr. Duhigg writes for The New Yorker magazine and is a graduate of Yale University and the Harvard Business School. He has been a frequent contributor to CNBC, This American Life, NPR, The Colbert Report, NewsHour, and Frontline.
About Adam Alter, PhD:
Adam Alter is an Associate Professor of Marketing at New York University’s Stern School of Business, with an affiliated appointment in the New York University Psychology Department.
.jpg)
Failure is inevitable, but your response to it is a choice – and it makes all the difference.
Journalist Tim Harford, PhD, psychologist Tal Ben-Shahar, and organizational behavior expert Robert Sutton, PhD, reveal how failure can become the foundation of success when it's examined and built upon. Reframing failure as information, rather than a personal setback, is what sets productive thinkers apart.
Our memories aren’t perfect records of the past — they’re reconstructions shaped by brain activity.
Neuroscientists Lisa Genova and André Fenton explain that a memory is created through neural patterns that can subtly shift each time we recall it. We may unknowingly add or lose details over time. Understanding this science helps us approach memory with more humility and empathy, and deepens our insight into how memories shape one’s identity and beliefs.
What happens when the boundaries of “you” disappear?
James Fadiman, PhD, Jamie Wheal, and Matthew Johnson, PhD explore how supported experiences with psychoactive drugs can dissolve identity and reveal a deeper reality.
What if one experience could make you lose your sense of self, forget time, and feel deeply connected to everything around you?
Experts Jamie Wheal, Matthew Johnson, PhD., and James Fadiman, PhD. give us a deeper look at psychedelic medicine, exploring how substances like psilocybin, LSD, and ayahuasca change the way we see ourselves and the world. Used carefully, they can bring insight and unity. However, without support, they can be overwhelming and reveal just how fragile our sense of reality can be. These researchers explain the difference.
About Matthew Johnson, PhD:
Matthew W. Johnson, PhD, is The Susan Hill Ward Endowed Professor of Psychedelics and Consciousness Research at Johns Hopkins. Working with psychedelics since 2004, he is one of the world’s most widely published experts on psychedelics. He has published research on psychedelics and mystical experience, personality change, tobacco smoking cessation, cancer distress treatment, and depression treatment.
About James Fadiman PhD:
Dr. James Fadiman is a leading scientific expert on the use of psychedelics for personal exploration, healing, and transformation. He has been researching, writing and lecturing on the topic for more than fifty years. His research focuses on exploring the potential of psychedelics to help individuals achieve a more meaningful, balanced and enlightened life.
About Jamie Wheal:
Jamie Wheal is the author of the global best-seller and Pulitzer Prize-nominated Stealing Fire: How Silicon Valley, Navy SEALs and Maverick Scientists are Revolutionizing the Way We Live and Work and the founder of the Flow Genome Project, an international organization dedicated to the research and training of ultimate human performance. Since founding the organization in 2011, it has gone on to become the leading voice of evidence-based peak performance in the world, counting award-winning academics, legendary professional athletes, special operations commanders, and Fortune 500 business leaders among the hundreds of thousands of people in its global community.
Around the world, small communities are preserving extraordinary skills and forms of knowledge that have endured for centuries, from rare crafts to rituals that require years of apprenticeship to master. These traditions are not simply artifacts of the past. They are living bodies of knowledge, sustained through discipline, memory, and care.In this Spark Salon, BBC journalist and author Eliot Stein shares stories from his search for the last keepers of remarkable traditions. Through immersive reporting and personal encounters, he explores what it takes to carry specialized knowledge across generations and what is lost when those skills disappear.As modern life accelerates and expertise becomes increasingly digital and disposable, Stein invites us to reflect on the value of embodied knowledge, apprenticeship, and continuity. What does it mean to inherit a skill? What responsibility comes with preserving it? And how do forms of knowledge shape the communities that sustain them?
A neuroscientist, a psychologist, and a psychotherapist discuss how emotions are stories built from old experiences.
By introducing new ones, you can shift the way your past shapes you.
Neuroscientist Lisa Feldman Barrett, PhD, psychologist Paul Eckman, PhD, and psychotherapist Esther Perel, PhD, explain how the brain constantly rebuilds emotions from memory and prediction. According to their research, by choosing new experiences today, we can reshape how our past influences us, gain more control over our feelings, and create new possibilities for connection and growth.
About Lisa Feldman Barrett, PhD:
Lisa Feldman Barrett is University Distinguished Professor of Psychology at Northeastern University, with appointments at Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard Medical School. She directs the Interdisciplinary Affective Science Laboratory, where she researches the nature of emotion and the brain’s predictive processes.
About Esther Perel, PhD:
Esther Perel is a psychotherapist and author recognized worldwide for her work on modern relationships. Perel is also a sought-after public speaker with TED Talks reaching millions, and consults globally with organizations on relational intelligence.
About Paul Ekman, PhD:
Paul Ekman is professor emeritus of psychology at the University of California, San Francisco, and a leading authority on emotion and nonverbal communication. He pioneered research on microexpressions and developed the Facial Action Coding System (FACS), used widely in psychology, law enforcement, and security.
Krista Tippett has spent decades convening conversations at the intersection of spirituality, science, and the human condition. Through her work On Being, she has asked some of the most searching questions of our time: What does it mean to be human? How do we live wisely with one another across differences? What kind of inner life makes a different outer world possible?
In this Spark Salon, Krista reflects on the discipline of listening, not as politeness but as transformation. She explores how the stories we inherit, the assumptions we carry, and the meaning we make of our experiences quietly shape how we see ourselves and one another.
This conversation is not about quick fixes. It is an invitation to slow down, to widen our moral imagination, and to examine the interior patterns that shape how we show up in a fractured world. When we shift the way we listen to ourselves and to others . . . something larger becomes possible.
For most of human history, that question lived in myth and imagination. Today, it lives in scientific inquiry.
In this Spark Salon, astrophysicist and astrobiologist Dr. Lisa Kaltenegger, Founding Director of the Carl Sagan Institute and author of Alien Earths, takes us into the search for worlds beyond our own. As scientists explore distant planets orbiting other stars, they are not just gathering data; they are interpreting it.
What counts as life?
What makes a world “habitable”?
How do we recognize something we’ve never seen before?
The search for life beyond Earth is ultimately a search for meaning. It forces us to examine the assumptions we carry about what is normal, possible, and real.
As our view of the cosmos expands, so does our perspective on ourselves. Looking outward into the vastness of space, we may discover something equally profound about how we construct our understanding of life here at home.
📣 Unlikely Collaborators GAME JAM Theme Announcement:
Make AWE playable:
Consciousness and Identity through Awe and Wonder
Build mechanics that create wonder.
Design systems that move identity.
Create moments where perception changes in real time.
🏆 $10,000 in prizes
📅 March 21 – April 7, 2026🔗 igdafoundation.org/gamejam
Sponsored by Unlikely Collaborators in collaboration with IGDA Foundation, Girls Make Games, and International Game Developers Association (IGDA®).
Sleep influences far more than how rested we feel. It shapes how we regulate emotion, connect with others, generate new ideas, and grow from our experiences. But even those who appreciate its importance and want to prioritize rest often find themselves struggling to reach their ideal sleep. Even gadgets, supplements, and sleep hygiene don’t seem to help in the face of life’s changes and challenges.
In this Spark Salon, board-certified sleep psychologist and author Dr. Jade Wu explores a new way to approach sleep that is intuitive and resilient—treating sleep as a relationship to nurture rather than an engineering problem to hack.
Drawing from neuroscience, clinical practice, and her work with high-performing professionals, she helps us understand how working with, instead of against, our unique sleep physiology is the foundation of steadier moods, clearer thinking, and recovery from challenge. This talk offers a grounded, humane perspective on sleep, one that moves beyond rigid rules or quick fixes and instead focuses on the malleable tools we can use to build a healthier, more sustainable relationship with rest.
We are surrounded by bold claims about the future—what’s coming next, what’s inevitable, what we should prepare for. But what if the most important work isn’t predicting what’s ahead but understanding how we relate to it in the first place?
In this Spark Salon, futures designer and author Nick Foster invites us to turn our attention inward. Drawing from his new book, Could Should Might Don’t, Nick helps us notice the stories we carry about the future—and the quiet assumptions, habits, and mental shortcuts that shape our sense of fear, urgency, agency, and possibility. Rather than offering forecasts or frameworks, he offers something more radical: a way to see the future as an extension of the present, shaped by human choices, values, and imagination.
Nick equips audiences to become more discerning thinkers about the future—less reactive, less dazzled by hype, and more grounded in choice and care. Through sharp provocation and real-world examples, the talk brings structure to imagination and expands perspective, helping people navigate uncertainty with greater confidence.
Yum! Brands co-founder David Novak reflects on a lifetime of movement, ambition, and leadership at the highest level. From a nomadic childhood to building some of the world’s most iconic restaurant brands, Novak shares how slowing down, listening more closely, and reexamining his assumptions ultimately reshaped his definition of success and meaning.
Good anxiety isn’t the enemy. Good anxiety is actually your built-in superpower for focus, creativity, and connection when you learn how to harness it. In this Spark Salon, renowned neuroscientist, author, and NYU Dean Dr. Wendy Suzuki invites us to rethink our entire relationship with stress by revealing the remarkable science behind this often misunderstood emotion. Rather than something to avoid, control, or suppress, anxiety becomes a source of energy and insight when we understand the deeper purpose of our brain’s stress responses.
Drawing from her book Good Anxiety: Harnessing the Power of the Most Misunderstood Emotion, Dr. Suzuki shows us how to turn everyday stress into fuel for a stronger, more resilient, beautifully adaptive brain. By learning simple, science-backed strategies to support our brain’s natural responses, we can shift from feeling overwhelmed to feeling equipped. Ultimately, she demonstrates that anxiety isn’t something we simply have to endure. Rather, it’s something we can learn from, shape, and use to live a fuller, more grounded, and more empowered life.
In this provocative Spark Salon, neuroscientist and best-selling author Lisa Feldman Barrett, PhD, invites us to rethink everything we believe about perception, emotion, and reality itself. Drawing on groundbreaking neuroscience, she reveals that we don’t perceive reality in a more or less objective way., Reality exists only in relation to us. Every sound, color, and feeling is an act of construction by the brain, shaped by culture, context, and memory. Through vivid examples, from a falling tree to a racing heart, Dr. Barrett shows that signals from the world and body have no inherent meaning until the brain processes them. What we experience as reality is a story our brains are constantly writing. Ultimately, she challenges us to recognize that we are not spectators of reality but its architects, with the power to expand our agency, reshape meaning, and reimagine what it means to be fully human.
Grief transforms how we see the world, shaping identity, meaning, and connection in profound ways for all of us, especially for children and teens. In this Spark Salon, Brennan Wood, Executive Director of Dougy Center, and Dr. Donna Schuurman, Senior Director of Advocacy & Education and Executive Director Emeritus, invite us into the often-invisible narratives of kids who are grieving: how they make sense of loss, what they internalize, and the stories they carry forward. Together, they will explore the power of witnessing grief, in ourselves and others, without trying to fix it—how presence itself can be healing, and what it means to be truly “grief-informed.” Drawing from personal experience and decades of leadership in the field, Brennan and Donna will share practical reflections and hard-earned wisdom on how grief, when named and honored, can expand our understanding of resilience, empathy, and the human experience.
Neuroscientist and consciousness researcher Nicco Reggente, PhD, will explore the fascinating, science-backed connection between the heart and the brain in this mind-expanding Spark Salon. Drawing from the groundbreaking, soon-to-be-published study Heartbeat-Evoked Potentials as a Neural Marker of Meditative Depth, Nicco will unpack the ancient wisdom behind “listening to your heart” and what it actually means in modern neuroscience. You’ll discover how the body’s subtle signals, like your heartbeat, shape consciousness, mindfulness, and emotional regulation. Through the lens of interoception (our ability to sense internal bodily states), this session reveals how tuning in to the sensations of the body can help us respond more thoughtfully to life rather than react impulsively.
Nutrition therapist and author Kim Shapira, MS, RD, shares her transformative Six Simple Rules to Become Your Healthiest Self, based on her acclaimed book This Is What You're Really Hungry For. In this engaging session, Kim will introduce key principles from her Six Rules, guiding participants to reframe their relationship with food through science-backed strategies, self-awareness, and sustainable habits. Kim’s empowering and practical approach moves beyond restrictive diets, helping participants reconnect with their bodies, manage emotions in healthier ways, and build lasting behaviors that support physical and emotional well-being.
Join renowned psychologist and author Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman for a powerful Spark Salon exploring themes from his latest book, Rise Above: Overcome a Victim Mindset, Empower Yourself, and Realize Your Full Potential. In this engaging session, Dr. Kaufman challenges the limiting beliefs and cultural narratives that keep us feeling stuck, offering fresh insight into how we can move beyond a victim mindset to reclaim our agency and become the heroes of our own lives. Drawing on cutting-edge psychology and grounded in empathy and humor, he reveals how to harness emotional intelligence, reframe past experiences, and unlock the resilience and potential within each of us.
In this session, digital workplace expert and author Alexandra Samuel, PhD, explores how AI sycophancy is changing the stories we tell about ourselves and how those stories shape our work, relationships, and well-being. Drawing from her podcast, Me+Viv, and forthcoming book, she shares insights on the intersection of AI and the new workplace, including the hidden tools that can help surface new perspectives, challenge assumptions, and navigate the risks and possibilities of emerging technology.
In a world increasingly marked by isolation and division, artist and urban designer Candy Chang offers a powerful counterpoint: We can still design spaces—physical, emotional, and communal—that foster connection, reflection, and belonging. Best known for her global Before I Die project, Chang has transformed walls, museums, neighborhoods, and even casinos into places of shared vulnerability, creativity, and hope. In this deeply moving and visually rich session, she explores how art can help us process grief, spark dialogue, and bridge the spaces between us. Drawing on a career of participatory installations across more than 70 countries, Candy shows us how to leverage the power of creativity and community to design lives, and environments, where people feel seen, supported, and at home.
Renowned mythologist and story expert John Bucher explores the extraordinary power of story as a force for transformation. Drawing from ancient myths and modern movements, John will reveal how stories have historically reshaped cultural norms, shifted collective behavior, and expanded what people believed was possible. Through compelling examples, John will illuminate how stories can be tools for liberation or limitation, depending on how they shape our internal narrative frameworks. This session will inspire participants to examine the stories they live by and consider how re-authoring those narratives can lead to personal growth, deeper empathy, and even social change.
In this energizing session, Ellen Bennett, founder of Hedley & Bennett and author of Dream First, Details Later, shares the unfiltered truth about fear, failure, and forging your own path. With no safety net and no investors, Ellen built her company from scratch by embracing action over perfection, reframing setbacks as fuel, and turning limited resources into powerful assets. A bold, personal take on pushing through fear, self-doubt, and imposter syndrome, this talk is a powerful reminder that self-belief, persistence, and momentum matter more than credentials or ideal circumstances, and, importantly, that we each have the power to drive our own story forward.
In this mind-expanding Spark Salon, storyteller, illusionist, and entrepreneur Harris III draws from his forthcoming book Start with Wow to explore a powerful shift: the transition from the Information Age to the Imagination Age. Blending magic, neuroscience, and storytelling, Harris makes the case that the future belongs not to those who begin with "how" or even "why" but to those bold enough to begin with "wow." As artificial intelligence and automation reshape the world, Harris offers a compelling framework for human relevance rooted in wonder, curiosity, and creativity. This session invites participants to reawaken their imaginations and see how awe—not algorithms—is the key to innovation, leadership, and purpose in the age ahead.
Sabrina's film is an animated conversation between her past, present, and future selves. The whole film was made using actual audio clips from her self when she was younger and the entire script was based around the limited dialog she could find on old home videos.
The film is meant to capture the vulnerable conversations that happen late at night and the thoughts that keep you up when you're anticipating something important the next day.
Entrepreneur and cultural icon Daymond John opens up about the experiences that shaped his hustle, worldview, and success. From the streets of Hollis, Queens to becoming one of Shark Tank’s most trusted investors, Daymond’s story is one of perseverance, reinvention, and purpose.
.jpg)
Why are bad habits so easy to form and so hard to break? In this four-part Spark Salon series, renowned psychiatrist, neuroscientist, and mindfulness expert Dr. Jud Brewer will reveal how our brains get hooked on unhelpful behaviors like anxiety, overeating, doomscrolling, and more—and how we can disrupt these patterns by better understanding the science of habit formation. Drawing from cutting-edge research, Buddhist psychology, and clinical breakthroughs, Dr. Jud introduces a practical, compassionate approach to breaking habits, not through willpower but through awareness, curiosity, and kindness. The first session, held both in person and live-streamed from Unlikely Collaborators, will introduce Dr. Jud’s framework and set the stage for the series. The following three online-only sessions will each dive deep into one of the "three gears" of habit change, providing immersive, experiential opportunities for participants to apply these methods in real time. With interactive breakout discussions and practical tools, this series invites you to expand the walls of your Perception Box™ and build a new relationship with your mind.
Jud Brewer, MD, PhD (“Dr. Jud”) is a New York Times best-selling author and leading authority on habit change and the science of self-mastery. With over 25 years of mindfulness training combined with scientific research, he serves as the Director of Research and Innovation at the Mindfulness Center and as a professor at Brown University. An internationally recognized psychiatrist specializing in mindfulness for addiction, Dr. Jud has developed innovative mindfulness programs—both in-person and app-based—for smoking cessation, emotional eating, and anxiety. He has investigated the neural mechanisms of mindfulness using standard and real-time fMRI and EEG neurofeedback. He has trained U.S. Olympic athletes, coaches, and foreign government ministers. His work has been featured on 60 Minutes and in TED (one of the most-viewed talks of 2016 with over 20 million views), The New York Times, Time, Forbes, BBC, NPR, Al Jazeera, Bloomberg Businessweek, and more. Dr. Jud founded MindSciences—now part of Sharecare Inc.—to bring his discoveries directly to consumers. He also cofounded Mindshift Recovery, a nonprofit aiding those suffering from addiction. He is the author of The Craving Mind (Yale University Press, 2017), the New York Times Best Seller Unwinding Anxiety (Avery/Penguin Random House, 2021), and The Hunger Habit (Avery/Penguin Random House, 2024). For more information, visit www.drjud.com.
Learn more about Spark Salons at salons.unlikelycollaborators.com.
.jpg)
For Vijay Gupta, music is not entertainment. It is a lifeline. He sees art as a way to process pain and grief, transforming them into something that heals and sustains. Described by The New Yorker as “a visionary violinist and a radical thinker in the classical music world,” Gupta creates spaces where people feel seen, connected, and whole. In his talks, he invites us to reconsider how we relate to struggle and shows how creative expression can shift the inner stories that shape our lives.
Described by The New Yorker as “a visionary violinist and a radical thinker in the classical music world,” Vijay Gupta is an internationally celebrated musician, speaker, and advocate who bridges the worlds of art, justice, and healing.
He is the founder and Artistic Director of Street Symphony, a Los Angeles–based nonprofit that has presented thousands of musical workshops and performances in shelters, county jails, state hospitals, and prisons—creating spaces of connection for people in reentry from homelessness, addiction, and incarceration. For Gupta, music is not entertainment—it’s a lifeline, a way to process pain, reclaim dignity, and transform grief into belonging.
A member of the first violin section of the Los Angeles Philharmonic for 12 years, Gupta has performed globally as a recitalist, soloist, and chamber musician and is a founding member of the Darshan Piano Trio and Tesserae Baroque. His recordings span repertoire from Bach to contemporary composers, and in 2024, he was elected to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences.
A dynamic communicator, Gupta has given three TED talks that have garnered millions of views. He has delivered keynote addresses for the American Medical Association, The Richmond Forum, The Aspen Institute, Hallmark, Accenture, the Mayo Clinic, the U.S. Psychiatric and Mental Health Congress, and the League of American Orchestras. In 2026, Grand Central Publishing will release his memoir, Restrung, exploring loss, resilience, and the power of music to transform the human spirit.
Learn more about Spark Salons at salons.unlikelycollaborators.com.
.jpg)
From pregame traditions to team-building exercises, rituals are intertwined in every facet of our lives. Harvard Business School professor Michael Norton, author of The Ritual Effect, shows that rituals play a role in our everyday lives: from building connections to helping us leave work behind at the end of the day. We can transform our unconscious habits into conscious productivity—and rise to challenges and opportunities like never before. Named one of WIRED’s 50 People Who Will Change the World, Michael demonstrates the power of rituals in our teams, our workplaces, our families, and even our marriages.
Michael Norton is a Harvard Business School professor whose work dives into the psychological effects of ritual. His groundbreaking research has proved the importance and flexibility of rituals in our everyday lives—they affect our feelings, thoughts, and even behaviors. Michael shows that rituals can bind us together as a community, which makes for stronger teams who coordinate and find meaning in their work, and explores the role that rituals play in our families, our friendships, and our marriages. Michael shows us the power of ritual in our personal lives and our workplaces. His groundbreaking book, The Ritual Effect, has been called “endlessly fascinating” (Dan Pink, Drive) and “an eye-opening window into why we swear by certain routines—and how we can build more enriching ones” (Adam Grant, Think Again).
Michael has also researched personal finance and spending—specifically, how to use money to get happier. Along with fellow professor Elizabeth Dunn, he’s the co-author of the book Happy Money: The Science of Happier Spending, which proved that we’re going about spending our money all wrong. With five practical principles on how to increase happiness by changing the philosophy behind spending, Happy Money is “a rare combination of informed science writing, rollicking good fun, and practical pointers for a more flourishing and compassionate life” (David G. Myers, The Pursuit of Happiness). His TEDx talk, which draws on this research, has been viewed over four million times.
Michael has appeared on National Public Radio, CBS, Fox, and MSNBC, cohosted Talking Green, a podcast on how people really interact with money, and written op-eds for The New York Times, Forbes, and The Wall Street Journal. His research has been featured in publications like Psychological Science, Journal of Consumer Research, and Journal of Marketing Research, has been covered by The Economist, The Financial Times, and The Washington Post, and has been parodied by The Onion.
Learn more about Spark Salons at salons.unlikelycollaborators.com.
.jpg)
Curious minds. Brave questions. Unexpected connections.
From myth to mindfulness to the science of awe, the Spark Salon speaker series brings together voices that will challenge, inspire, and expand your perspective.
According to neuroscientists and psychiatrists, healing begins with awareness and compassionate connection.
Dr. Bessel van der Kolk, Dr. Wendy Suzuki, and Dr. James Doty explain how trauma and anxiety are processed through both the brain and body: trauma isn’t just what happens to us, but how our nervous system holds onto it, disrupting our ability to feel safe, connect with others, and think clearly.
Often a feeling people want to avoid, anxiety actually functions to motivate action and can be leveraged as a tool for focus and productivity. Through breathwork, mindfulness, and reshaping negative internal dialogue, we can begin to retrain the brain, regulate the body, and support a lifetime of growth.
Do Kids Think Rules Are Meant to Be Broken?
HiHo and Unlikely Collaborators teamed up to ask 100 kids just that—exploring how young minds view right, wrong, and everything in between.Inspired by the Perception Box framework.
What if the way you see the world is shaped by trauma you haven’t fully processed?
Psychiatrist Bessel van der Kolk, author of The Body Keeps the Score, explains how trauma isn't just remembered, it is physically lived and relived through the body and brain.
He describes how traditional talk therapy often fails to reach the survival centers of the brain where trauma resides. Instead, healing comes through visceral experiences that help rewire perception, build a sense of safety, and reconnect the self. Through movement, touch, psychodrama, and even psychedelics, the brain can learn to see the present as safe again.
About Bessel van der Kolk:
Bessel van der Kolk, M.D., is a pioneering psychiatrist and trauma researcher, best known for his work on post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). He authored the bestselling book The Body Keeps the Score, which explores how trauma reshapes both body and brain. As founder of the Trauma Research Foundation, he has led innovative treatments combining neuroscience, psychotherapy, and body-based approaches to healing trauma. His work has transformed trauma care worldwide.
“I want people to know that their lives matter and that their deaths ultimately will too.” How a journey to Cuba made Alua Arthur confront her own mortality, and ultimately led her to her career as a death doula.
Alua Arthur, a death doula, never expected to find her calling in the space between life and death. Struggling with depression and a sense of not belonging, she was searching for meaning when a chance encounter in Cuba changed everything.
After encountering death in her personal life, she began to confront her own mortality—and realize she wasn’t truly living. This moment, combined with the loss of her brother-in-law, set her on a path to becoming a death doula, someone who supports people through their final days. Now, she is an author, a (public speaker), and has dedicated her career to helping others embrace life by acknowledging its inevitable end.
About Alua Arthur:
Alua Arthur is a death doula, end-of-life care expert, and founder of Going with Grace, a nonprofit dedicated to helping individuals navigate the final chapter of their lives. After struggling with depression and identity, Alua found purpose in guiding others through the dying process with compassion and dignity. She has dedicated her life to empowering people to face death with grace, offering support to both individuals and their families.
Gracie Gold’s battle with mental health nearly ended her career—and her life. This is how she found her way back to herself.
Gracie Gold, a two-time national champion and Olympic medalist, seemed to embody perfection. But behind the medals and the headlines, her obsession with being flawless led her to a breaking point. After the 2016 World Championships, she spiraled into depression, binge-eating, and a complete loss of identity.
Feeling trapped and out of place, Gold hit rock bottom before seeking help at a treatment facility. There, she finally “met herself,” learning to let go of perfection and accepting “okay” as enough. Now, she’s a mental health advocate and a New York Times bestselling author.
About Gracie Gold:
Gracie Gold is an American figure skater known for her technical skill, artistry, and resilience. Born in 1995, she rose to prominence by winning the U.S. national title in 2014 and earning a bronze medal at the 2014 Winter Olympics in the team event. Gold also claimed silver at the 2016 World Championships, solidifying her status as one of the sport’s top competitors. After facing mental health challenges that led to a hiatus, she made a remarkable comeback, advocating for mental health awareness in athletics.
Can psychedelics under anesthesia heal trauma? What is the latest research around ketamine, MDMA, and psilocybin? That’s part of what we explore this week on Science of Perception Box. Stanford anesthesiologist Dr. Boris Heifets joins Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christoph Koch to discuss the latest research on the first double-blind study on Ketamine, the placebo effect, and the therapeutic value of anesthesia-induced dreams.
Dr. Boris Heifets, MD, PhD, is a board certified anesthesiologist who specializes in providing anesthesia for neurological surgery. He has practiced at Stanford since 2010. After completing residency training at Stanford, Dr. Heifets completed fellowship training in neuroanesthesiology, also at Stanford. In addition to treating patients, Dr. Heifets directs both clinical research and basic neuroscience. His research group studies how new rapid-acting psychiatric therapies like ketamine, MDMA, and psilocybin produce lasting changes in nervous system function, behavior, and therapeutic outcomes.
Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.
Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.
Join us for new episodes every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever podcasts are found.
Love the show? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend about the show.
Ever wonder why time seems to fly or crawl? From ancient philosophers to modern neuroscientists, the nature of time has captivated human curiosity. This week on Science of Perception Box, we investigate the relationships among time, memory, and perception. Dr. Davachi shares the mechanisms of how the brain encodes and retrieves memories, including why emotions and feelings play a role in our perception of time.
Lila Davachi is a prominent neuroscientist known for her research in the field of memory. She earned her PhD from Yale University in 1999 and currently holds a faculty position at Columbia University, where she leads the Davachi Memory Lab. Her work primarily focuses on understanding the processes of memory encoding, consolidation, and retrieval through behavioral and cognitive neuroscientific methods.
Dr. Davachi has made significant contributions to the understanding of how memories are formed and maintained in the brain. She has published extensively in academic journals, with her research being highly cited within the scientific community. In addition to her research, she is actively involved in teaching and mentoring students in psychology and neuroscience.
Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.
Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation as well as the current Meritorious Investigator and Former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.
Join us for new episodes every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music or wherever podcasts are found.
Love the show? Write us a review on your podcast app or tell a friend about the show.
When was the last time you felt absolutely mesmerized by something beautiful? Whether it’s seeing a breathtaking vista, losing yourself in a piece of music, or being in a crowd cheering for the same team, the feeling of awe can be all-encompassing and expansive. This week on Science of Perception Box, Dr. Dacher Keltner, one of the world’s foremost emotion scientists and a scientific advisor behind Pixar’s Inside Out, shares how we can cultivate more awe in our life and why we need this sometimes overlooked emotion.
Dr. Keltner is a professor of psychology at UC Berkeley and the faculty director of the Greater Good Science Center. He has over 200 scientific publications and six books, including Born to Be Good, The Compassionate Instinct, and The Power Paradox. Dr. Keltner is involved with the education of health care providers and judges and has consulted extensively for Google, Apple, and Pinterest on issues related to emotion and well-being.
Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School Of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.
Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for The Tiny Blue Dot Foundation as well as the current Meritorious investigator and Former President of the Allen Institute For Brain Science.
Join us for new episodes every Wednesday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music or wherever podcasts are found.
Love the show? Write us a review on your podcast app or tell a friend about the show.
How can parents embrace science in order to give their children the best possible environment to thrive in? Cognitive development expert Dr. Alison Gopnik joins us to discuss how navigating challenges fosters healthier adults, likening caregiving to being a gardener creating an environment where various ”plants” can thrive in different conditions. Exposing children to diverse environments helps them develop better coping mechanisms, akin to how the immune system strengthens against viruses.
Dr. Gopnik is a professor at the University of California at Berkeley, where she has taught since 1988. She is a world leader in cognitive science, particularly the study of children’s learning and development. She is the author of over 100 journal articles and several books including the best-selling and critically acclaimed popular books The Scientist in the Crib, The Philosophical Baby, and The Gardener and the Carpenter. She is a fellow of the Cognitive Science Society and the American Association for the Advancement of Science and a member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences.
Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.
Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.
Join us for new episodes every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever podcasts are found.
We long for love. We die for love. We kill for love. But why do we love? Cohosts Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christoph Koch ask this question to Helen Fisher, PhD. who dedicated her career to researching romantic love. In this episode of Science of Perception Box, we explore how the act of being in love or out of love changes how we view ourselves and the world around us.
Dr. Fisher was a biological anthropologist, Senior Research Fellow at The Kinsey Institute, and Chief Science Advisor to Match.com. She used brain scanning (fMRI) to study the neural systems associated with the sex drive, romantic love, attachment, rejection, love addiction, long-term partnership happiness, and the biological foundations of human personality. She conducted extensive research on the evolution, biology, and psychology of human sexuality, monogamy, adultery, and divorce.
Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.
Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.
Join us for new episodes every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever podcasts are found.
Love the show? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend about the show.
What happens when an irredeemable person receives love, gratitude, and respect? After decades of drug and alcohol abuse, chef and television personality Andrew Zimmern learned firsthand.
As a teenager, Andrew Zimmern experienced deep pain when his mother became permanently disabled, and his father enforced a rule to avoid discussing feelings. Without an outlet, that pain grew into resentment and substance abuse. By 14, Zimmern was drinking daily, and his addiction followed him into adulthood, ultimately costing him his career, relationships, and home.
In January 1992, after hitting rock bottom, Zimmern attempted to take his own life. When he woke up, something shifted. For the first time, he asked for help. His friends intervened, sending him to rehab, where he began confronting his emotions and embracing a mindset of learning and giving.
Zimmern rebuilt his life, becoming a celebrated chef, author, and TV personality. Today, he credits that one vulnerable moment with saving his life and inspiring him to live with purpose and gratitude.
About Andrew Zimmern:
Andrew Zimmern is a chef, food writer, and television personality best known for hosting Bizarre Foods on the Travel Channel. A four-time James Beard Award winner, Zimmern has dedicated his career to exploring global cuisines and advocating for culinary diversity. Beyond television, he is a passionate philanthropist, focusing on hunger relief, food sustainability, and social justice. He founded the Andrew Zimmern Project to support food security initiatives and works with organizations like Second Harvest and Services for the Underserved. Through his work, Zimmern strives to create a more equitable food system and inspire cultural appreciation through cuisine.
The one phrase that changed Diana Nyad’s life, and set her on course to become the first person ever to conquer the 110 mile, 53 hour swim from Florida to Cuba.
At 64, Diana Nyad swam 110 miles from Cuba to Florida, facing jellyfish, exhaustion, and tough ocean currents for over 53 hours. But this feat was more than just physical - it was the result of a lifetime of mental endurance.
As a young swimmer, she faced sexual abuse from her coach, which derailed her Olympic dreams and left deep emotional scars. Instead of letting those experiences hold her back, she found a way to channel that pain into something powerful. She talks about developing a "steel trap mind," using her struggles as motivation to pursue her goals.
Diana's journey goes beyond breaking records. It’s a powerful reminder of the human spirit's ability to persevere and heal, no matter the odds. Her swim from Cuba to Florida, completed on her fifth attempt, showcases her incredible willpower and serves as an inspiration to people everywhere.
About Diana Nyad: Diana Nyad is an endurance swimmer, author, and motivational speaker best known for her 2013 record-breaking swim from Cuba to Florida at age 64. Completing the 110-mile journey without a shark cage, she demonstrated unparalleled resilience and determination. Nyad is also a bestselling author, journalist, and co-founder of EverWalk, a fitness initiative promoting community through walking. Her story of perseverance, chronicled in her memoir Find a Way, continues to inspire audiences worldwide.
“I saw that when I believed my thoughts, I suffered, and when I didn’t believe them, I didn’t suffer.”
Author and public speaker Byron Katie shares how she transformed her life after discovering ‘The Work’, a method for identifying the thoughts that cause pain and suffering. By asking herself four simple yet profound questions, she found a way to recover from her agoraphobia, reunite with her family, and begin teaching others how to heal.
Katie’s strategy for ending suffering lies in asking yourself four questions about the thoughts you’re having: Is it true? Can you absolutely know it’s true? How do you react when you believe it? Who are you without the thought?
By asking yourself these questions, Katie explains how you can begin to escape the mentalities that hold you back. Her method shows us that peace doesn’t come from changing the world—it comes from changing how we see it.
About Byron Katie: Byron Katie is an author and teacher who helps people find peace by questioning their stressful thoughts. In 1986, after years of depression, she experienced a life-changing realization that led her to create The Work, a simple process of self-inquiry. Her books, like Loving What Is and A Thousand Names for Joy, have touched millions. Through workshops and talks, Katie shares a path to clarity and freedom, helping people live with more acceptance and ease.
Our cultural lenses can expand our Perception Box or contract it, keeping us closed off to new opportunities. So how do we become aware of the personal influences that shape our perceptions? In this episode of Science of Perception Box, cohosts Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christoph Koch discuss the impact of cultural differences on identity and mindsets with guest Dr. Daphna Oyserman. Dr. Oyserman shares her insights on how small changes in context can significantly affect our mindset and choices, impacting our health and academic performance.
Dr. Daphna Oyserman is a Dean’s Professor of Psychology and Professor of Psychology and Education at the University of Southern California. Dr. Oyserman received a PhD in psychology and social work from the University of Michigan and served on the faculty of The Hebrew University, Jerusalem, before returning to the University of Michigan where she last held appointments as the Edwin J. Thomas Collegiate Professor of Social Work, Professor of Psychology, and Research Professor in the Institute for Social Research.
Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.
Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.
Join us for new episodes every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever podcasts are found.
Love the show? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend about the show.
What is the mind? Does the mind exist only in your own Perception Box, or is there a greater connection of consciousness? In this episode of Science of Perception Box, cohosts Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christoph Koch discuss the interconnectedness of the mind, the impact of implicit memories from infancy on childhood attachment, and the wheel of awareness with Dr. Dan Siegel. Dr. Siegel shares his research and practices on healing unresolved trauma, preventing burnout for caregivers and medical professionals, and channeling the Perception Box-expanding power of empathy.
Dr. Siegel is the Executive Director of the Mindsight Institute and Founding Co-Director of the Mindful Awareness Research Center at UCLA, where he was also Co-Principal Investigator of the Center for Culture, Brain, and Development and Clinical Professor at the School of Medicine. An award-winning educator, he is a Distinguished Fellow of the American Psychiatric Association and recipient of several honorary fellowships. He has authored numerous articles and books, including five New York Times bestsellers.
Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.
Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.
Join us for new episodes every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever podcasts are found.
Love the show? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend about the show.
Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information.
.png)
Humans have a symbiotic relationship with plants. Plants coevolved to suit our desires for nourishment, beauty, and altering consciousness. Journalist Michael Pollan has investigated the human connection to plants. This week on Science of Perception Box, Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch ask Pollan about modern trends like ultra-processed foods, industrialized agriculture, and consciousness-altering drugs from plants including caffeine, cannabis, and psychedelics.
For more than 30 years, Michael Pollan has been writing books and articles about the places where the human and natural worlds intersect: on our plates, in our farms and gardens, and in our minds. Pollan is the author of eight books, six of which have been New York Times bestsellers. In 2003, Pollan was appointed the John S. and James L. Knight Professor of Journalism at UC Berkeley’s Graduate School of Journalism and the director of the Knight Program in Science and Environmental Journalism. In 2020, along with Dacher Keltner and others, he cofounded the UC Berkeley Center for the Science of Psychedelics.
Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.
Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.
Join us for new episodes every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever podcasts are found.
Love the show? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend about the show.
Jim McKelvey, co-founder of Square, overcame a challenging upbringing marked by social isolation and family tragedy, channeling those experiences into a life defined by action, innovation, and iconoclasm. Though he’s undeniably earned his reputation as a business trailblazer, McKelvey remains uncomfortable with any attempts to mythologize his journey.
As a child, Bob Stiller felt unmoored. His mother’s death was a loss that fueled anger, insecurity and, as a teenager, lots of partying. He founded rolling paper company E-Z Wider in 1971 and, a decade later, Green Mountain Coffee Roasters.
Sophia Amoruso (aka Nasty Gal) started a tiny online vintage clothing store that quickly turned into a $350 million business. Fame soon followed, but so did all of her insecurities.
Anxiety can make us feel like we’re trapped in our brain. So how do we open the door and gain freedom? This week in the inaugural episode of Science of Perception Box podcast, Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch invite Dr. Judson Brewer to delve into the roots of anxiety, its impact on our perception, and how curiosity can be the key to lasting change.
Dr. Judson Brewer studies the neural mechanisms of mindfulness. He is the Director of Research and Innovation at Brown University’s Mindfulness Center, where he’s also an Associate Professor at the School of Medicine. Dr. Brewer is a leading expert in the science of self-mastery and breaking habits. His books include Unwinding Anxiety, The Craving Mind, and The Hunger Habit.
Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.
Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.
Join us for new episodes every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever podcasts are found.
Love the show? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend about the show.
Join renowned scientists Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch on the Science of Perception Box, where they delve into the Perception Box—a groundbreaking concept developed by Elizabeth R. Koch, that reveals how our beliefs, biases, and neural wiring shape our reality and define how we experience the world.
Through captivating conversations with expert guests like psychiatrist Dr. Judson Brewer, anthropologist Dr. Helen Fisher, and journalist Michael Pollan, the show explores how the Perception Box expands in states of awe, curiosity, and love, and contracts during fear, anxiety, or anger.
From mindfulness and romantic relationships to psychedelics and human connection, each episode uncovers transformative insights into unlocking greater awareness, fostering curiosity, and reshaping how we perceive the world.
New episodes drop every Thursday on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Follow the journey and redefine your reality.
Don’t call yourself “a writer,” just write. Ryan Holiday on how the labels you give yourself can hold you back.
Who would you be without all the labels and identities you’ve collected over the course of your life?
Ego, titles, and societal expectations often shape who we think we are—or who we think we should be. Author, and for simplicity's sake, bookstore owner, Ryan Holiday explains the simple question “What do you do?” can turn into a trap, making us cling to roles that don’t really define us. But what happens when you let go of these labels? What if, instead of focusing on the identity of being a writer, you focused on the act of writing itself?
As Holiday got older, he learned that being busy “doing the verb” is far more valuable than obsessing over the noun. It’s easy to get caught up in trying to fit into the “right” categories and titles, but that often means copying, comparing, and losing sight of what really matters.
About Ryan Holiday: Ryan Holiday is a bestselling author, marketer, and one of today’s leading voices in modern Stoicism. He’s known for taking ancient wisdom and making it relatable and practical for everyday life. Before becoming an author, he led marketing at American Apparel. Now, he writes about strategy, self-discipline, and leadership, weaving history into real-world advice.
When a group of first responders were asked to confront the Perception Box question, "What need inside of yourself have you been neglecting?", their raw and honest responses were deeply moving and sparked profound reflection.
This series (a collaboration with Jubilee Media) is designed for communities with shared experiences to spark deeper self-understanding and connection by sharing their answers to specially selected Perception Box questions. This highlights the power of vulnerability and the importance of creating safe spaces for honest conversations.
“I feel like I had to lose my sight to fully gain my vision.” John Furniss on how becoming blind led him to drug abuse, rehab, woodworking, and finally, to a fulfilling life.
John Furniss, also known as the Blind Woodsman, opens up about his journey from a difficult past to finding peace and purpose. After losing his sight as a teenager, John struggled for years to accept his new reality, battling inner turmoil and substance abuse along the way. It wasn't until he discovered woodworking through a vocational rehab program that he found a way to channel his creativity and start healing.
Woodworking became more than just a skill for John; it allowed him to bring the designs he imagined in his mind to life. This craft also led him to meet his wife, Annie, who has been a constant source of love and support. Through his work and his relationship, John found a sense of belonging and a new way of seeing the world. He reflects on how losing his sight actually helped him gain a clearer vision of who he is and what he’s meant to do, ultimately finding peace in embracing his true self.
About John Furniss:
John Furniss, known professionally as The Blind Woodsman, is a skilled woodworker, author, and disability advocate recognized for his meticulous hand-turned creations. After losing his sight at 16, John faced significant challenges adapting to life with total blindness. In his 20s, he found his passion for woodworking through a class designed for the blind, which led to the development of his unique craft.
Today, John’s work has been featured on platforms such as Good Morning America and The Kelly Clarkson Show. He and his wife, Anni, who is also an artist, use their social media platforms to share their work and raise awareness about disability and mental health. John’s expertise in woodworking and his contributions to the art community have established him as a respected figure in his field.
Kaelynn Partlow shares her story about life with autism, ADHD, and dyslexia, and how finding the right diagnosis helped her embrace her neurodivergent identity.
Kaelynn Partlow, an author, autism advocate, and registered behavior technician, shares her own experiences living with autism, ADHD, dyslexia, and more. She talks about how these diagnoses shifted her self-perception from feeling "stupid" to understanding her unique challenges and strengths.
Kaelynn opens up about the misunderstandings neurodivergent people face and the difficulty of connecting in a world that often doesn't accommodate different ways of thinking. She also shares her fears—like wondering if her social difficulties will ever improve—and how she copes with loneliness, especially when not focused on work.
Through it all, Kaelynn emphasizes the value of recognizing your own strengths, even when it’s hard. By taking on challenges and thriving under pressure, she found new opportunities, from public speaking to creative writing. Her story shows that growth often comes from facing fears and redefining success on your own terms.
About Kaelynn Partlow:
In 2015, Kaelynn Partlow joined Project Hope Foundation as a Registered Behavior Technician. She is now a Lead Technician, providing services to middle and high-school-aged clients and contributing to staff training development.
In 2021, Kaelynn was featured on the Netflix series Love On The Spectrum. She has also been a guest on numerous national podcasts and has published several articles, offering insights from an autistic perspective.
With a large following on various social media platforms, Kaelynn uses her reach for autism advocacy, connecting with millions globally. In addition to her online work and role at Project Hope, she is an international public speaker, passionate about sharing tangible strategies for best practices when interacting with individuals on the autism spectrum
Your brain is wired to repeat the familiar. Change this wiring, and it will change your life.
Nicole Vignola, a neuroscientist and organizational psychologist, explains how deeply rooted beliefs can limit our potential and keep us trapped in patterns of thought. These perceptions, often shaped by our upbringing and environment, aren’t necessarily our own—but they can be changed.
Nicole shares how the brain’s natural biases, like negativity bias and confirmation bias, reinforce these limiting beliefs. However, with the right approach, it’s possible to reshape our mental patterns. By practicing metacognition—observing and naming our thoughts—we can start to rewire our perception and create new, empowering narratives.
Our brains are capable of change at any age. By focusing on small wins and challenging automatic thoughts, we can break free from old beliefs and begin using a mindset that better serves ourselves and our futures.
About Nicole Vignola:
Nicole Vignola is a neuroscientist, author and corporate consultant. With a BSc in Neuroscience and an MSc in Organizational Psychology, Nicole works with companies and individuals worldwide, educating them on the science of human optimisation, health and longevity, and how to enable employees to perform better in their daily lives and in turn, bring peak performance to the workplace. Recent clients include Lloyds Bank, Makers Mark and Smeg Ltd.
.jpg)
Expanding your worldview starts with understanding your brain. Stanford neuroscientist David Eagleman explains.
David Eagleman, a neuroscientist at Stanford and host of the Inner Cosmos podcast, explores how our brains shape the reality we experience and why we often accept our perceptions as the only truth. From a young age, we develop our understanding of the world based on limited experiences and biases, which can lead us to form narrow views about what's true.
Eagleman explains that our genetics and life experiences wire our brains in unique ways, meaning that each of us sees the world a little differently. He introduces the idea of "perceptual genomics," which looks at how slight genetic differences influence our perception of reality. He also discusses how our brains naturally create in-groups and out-groups, a tendency rooted in evolution that affects how much empathy we feel for others.
To overcome these biases, Eagleman suggests that we start by recognizing our own prejudices, understanding the tactics of dehumanization, and connecting with others through shared interests. This approach helps us appreciate the diverse realities others experience, ultimately contributing to a more empathetic and understanding society.
About David Eagleman:
David Eagleman is a neuroscientist at Stanford University and an internationally bestselling author. He is co-founder of two venture-backed companies, Neosensory and BrainCheck, and he also directs the Center for Science and Law, a national non-profit institute. He is best known for his work on sensory substitution, time perception, brain plasticity, synesthesia, and neurolaw.
Challenging the loneliness stigma can change your life. Here’s how to start.
From a young age, many of us are taught that being alone means something is wrong, leading to negative thought patterns that reinforce feelings of isolation. Kasley Killam, author of The Art and Science of Connection and an expert in social health, explains how these perceptions of loneliness can shape our experiences and influence our lives.
According to Killam, this stigma around loneliness can trigger a stress response in the body, affecting both mental and physical well being. However, by challenging these narratives and reminding ourselves of how much control we really have, it’s possible to redirect our mindsets. It also helps, she says, to understand the difference between individualistic and collectivist cultures, and how each one can influence the way we interpret and discuss our feelings with others.
For those who have struggled with loneliness or felt trapped in a cycle of negative thinking, this perspective can help us break free. By shifting our thought patterns, we can transform our relationships, enhance our sense of connection, and improve our overall well-being.
About Kasley Killam:
Kasley Killam is a social health expert, author, and advocate focused on strengthening connections and enhancing community well-being. With a background in behavioral science and public health from Harvard University, she is a leading voice on the impact of social relationships on mental and physical health.
As the founder of Social Health Labs, Killam collaborates with organizations to develop innovative solutions for combating loneliness and social isolation. Her work has been featured in major publications, and she is a sought-after speaker on the importance of social well-being in creating healthier, more resilient communities.
Ever wonder why your partner goes Tasmanian Devil in traffic jams while you just shrug? Or why you have such a hard time setting boundaries with parents when your sibling has no problem saying "hell no!" Everyone has something that triggers panic or turns their blood cold…and it all starts with the story you made up about yourself when you were too young to know the difference…your Perception Box Seed Story.
A group of LGBTQ+ individuals courageously answered the Perception Box question, "Who or what have you left behind on your journey to become who you are today?" Their honest and insightful responses were deeply moving.
This series (a collaboration with Jubilee Media) is designed for communities with shared experiences to spark deeper self-understanding and connection by sharing their answers to specially selected Perception Box questions. This highlights the power of vulnerability and the importance of creating safe spaces for honest conversations.
How has Kel Mitchell navigated self-doubt, isolation, and the desire to “hit the off button”? He says it’s all faith, community, and personal forgiveness.
After his debut on Nickelodeon, Kel Mitchell began a life-long career as an actor and comedian. He got married, started a family, and basked in professional success. However, behind the scenes, he faced intense personal hardships that pushed him to the brink, testing his resilience and strength in ways he never imagined.
Kel guides us through the lowest points of his life, showing us how faith in himself and his religion helped him rebuild and achieve a fulfilling existence. He reminds us that blessings can often be hidden in hardships and that mistakes play a crucial role in shaping who we are.
By expressing his pain and opening up to others about the things he was struggling with, he was able to find unity, community, and support from those who had experienced similar drawbacks. Mitchell stresses the importance of understanding others, and how deep relationships can change – and even save – lives.
If you or someone you know is considering suicide, please contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-TALK (8255), text “STRENGTH” to the Crisis Text Line at 741-741 or go to suicidepreventionlifeline.org.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kel Mitchell is a two-time Emmy Award-nominated actor, producer, comedian, and youth pastor hailing from Chicago, Illinois.
Mitchell executive produced and appeared in the new iteration of the beloved Nickelodeon series All That, bringing him full circle to the original award-winning show that was his big break. All That was Nickelodeon's longest-running live-action series, with 171 episodes across ten seasons from 1994 to 2005. The franchise paved the way for a number of successful spin-offs, including Kenan & Kel, The Amanda Show, The Nick Cannon Show, and the feature-length film Good Burger, all of which cemented Mitchell's impact on pop culture.
A two-part visualization to help you gain distance from any overpowering emotion so you can respond to the true need of the moment with something closer to calm.
Harvard physician Aditi Nerukar explains how to rewire your brain’s stress response to live a more resilient life.
If you’ve ever heard the phrase “pressure makes diamonds,” this video is for you.
Harvard physician Aditi Nerurkar was working 80 hours a week, and, despite what she was telling herself about resilience, the stress was taking a major toll. She explains how there are two different kinds of stress, aptly named “adaptive” and “maladaptive.” But how can you tell the difference between the two?
Dr. Nerukar explains that healthy, adaptive stress moves your life forward, while unhealthy, maladaptive stress wears you down and diminishes your productivity. When experiencing maladaptive stress, you may find yourself plummeting closer to burnout, or a complete shutdown. To combat these consequences, Dr. Neurkar offers two easily achievable methods for resetting your brain in high-stress situations.
Whether you're navigating a demanding job, balancing multiple life roles, or simply looking to improve your stress management, this information can help you thrive without compromising your well-being. Remember to slow down, take deep breaths, and regularly check in with yourself to ensure your stress remains healthy and manageable!
Neuroanatomist Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor explains the 4 key ”characters” of the brain, and how understanding each can expand your perception of yourself, and the world, forever.
At age 37, neuroanatomist Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor suffered a stroke that would take her eight years to fully recover from. This is how it changed her understanding of the brain.
In this interview, Dr. Jill draws a map of the human brain, explaining how it is comprised of four distinct modules, each serving a unique role in function and personality. This combination of cognitive and emotional components gives rise to the multidimensional characters within each of us.
Are you looking to be more rational, more creative, more forgiving, or perhaps less rigid in your thinking? Dr. Jill suggests that by becoming aware of the four modules of our brains, we can consciously choose to engage specific parts. This awareness allows us to harness the true power of our brains and shape who we want to become, ultimately fostering less anxiety, more inner peace, and a vastly more purposeful life.
Carrie Berk reveals how she transformed her struggle with anxiety and internet fame by changing her perception and finding her true voice as a writer.
Carrie Berk, author, journalist, and social media influencer with nearly 4 million TikTok followers, shares her journey through anxiety, internet fame, and personal growth.
Amid the pandemic and sudden online fame, Carrie faced intense anxiety, receiving harmful threats from strangers and grappling with the pressures of social media. Sharing her most vulnerable moments, including her first heartbreak at sixteen, Carrie emphasizes the importance of authenticity. Through therapy and self-discovery, she learned that while she couldn’t switch off her anxiety, she could change her response to it.
Carrie’s story is a perfect example of the resilience it takes to be a young person in today’s social climate, and proves how powerful self-confidence and inner strength can be.
This group of people who have experienced homelessness were asked the Perception Box question, "In moments of deep solitude, what major concerns and questions about YOU tend to dominate your thoughts?" Their honest answers were deeply moving and insightful.
This series (a collaboration with Jubilee Media) is designed for communities with shared experiences to spark deeper self-understanding and connection by sharing their answers to specially selected Perception Box questions. This highlights the power of vulnerability and the importance of creating safe spaces for honest conversations.
In this episode, a group of formerly incarcerated individuals was asked the Perception Box question, "What are you most afraid is true about you?" Their candid responses were incredibly moving and thought-provoking.
This series (a collaboration with Jubilee Media) is designed for communities with shared experiences to spark deeper self-understanding and connection by sharing their answers to specially selected Perception Box questions. This highlights the power of vulnerability and the importance of creating safe spaces for honest conversations.
Jewel says denying the truth cost her years of her life. This is how she shifted her perception to see truth more clearly and regain her strength.
“My number one job was to be a happy, whole human — not a human full of holes.” Jewel Kilcher, singer-songwriter, and visual artist, opens up about her childhood, the start of her career, and what makes Jewel, Jewel.
After being discovered during a coffee shop gig in the 1990’s, folk singer Jewel began the life-long endeavor of being a performer. Jewel went on to gain worldwide recognition for her talent and creativity. But who is she at her core? What are her greatest fears, her deepest aspirations?
In this interview, Jewel shares the personal struggles and triumphs that have shaped her, the importance of truth on her life and well-being, and the lessons she's learned along the way. Through this conversation, Jewel offers an up-close look into her journey, revealing the experiences and hard-won insights that have shaped her as both an artist and a person.
Experience Jewel’s latest exhibit at the Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art, The Portal: An Art Experience by Jewel ► https://crystalbridges.org/calendar/the-portal-an-art-experience-by-jewel/
About Jewel:
Jewel Kilcher, known mononymously as Jewel, embodies the quintessential story of resilience and artistic integrity. From her humble beginnings in the rugged landscapes of Alaska to her rise as a multi-platinum recording artist, Jewel's journey is a testament to the transformative power of art. Homeless at 18, she honed her craft performing in coffee shops, blending folk, pop, and country influences with her ethereal voice and introspective songwriting.
Her debut album, "Pieces of You," captured hearts worldwide, achieving remarkable commercial success while delivering profound, soul-stirring messages. Beyond music, Jewel's talents extend to poetry and acting, with her literary works and performances reflecting her deep empathy and authenticity.
Jewel's commitment to social causes, including mental health advocacy and her foundation, the Inspiring Children Foundation, underscores her dedication to making a positive impact. In a world often dominated by transient fame, Jewel stands out as a beacon of enduring creativity and compassionate leadership.
Alyssa and her ex-boyfriend Trey have successfully transitioned from lovers to best friends. But can she recreate that same dynamic with her most recent ex, Adal? Alyssa, Trey, and Adal dive deep into their pasts and their relationships with each other by answering a series of thought-provoking Perception Box questions. Watch their honest reflections, uncover their perspectives on love and friendship, and discover what the future holds for this unique trio.
What happens when men shed their armor and embrace their emotions? Men from diverse backgrounds share their stories of overcoming trauma, redefining masculinity, and finding strength in vulnerability. This is a must-watch for anyone seeking deeper connections and understanding.
Emma and Nick both swiped "yes" in person. Now that they have a chance to get to know each other and themselves more deeply by answering Perception Box questions, are they compatible?
